Godfrey Hibbert
Two stylish essentials go knee to toe in this week’s fashionable face-off. It’s sneakers vs. jeans! Writer, actor, and attorney Chas Carey defends super cool jeans from sneaker freak, journalist, and radio producer Daniel Alarcón. Which awesome item will win?! Dynamite denim or sole-ful sneakers?
Vote below to tell us who YOU think won!
This episode was sponsored by:
Outschool.com/smashboom – To save $15 on your child’s first class
Audio Transcript
Download transcript (PDF)
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: From the brains behind Brains On!, it's Smash Boom Best.
ELSA: The show for people with big opinions.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a fashionable face-off between practical pants and sporty shoes. It's jeans versus sneakers. In one corner, we've got writer, actor, and attorney Chas Carey defending dynamite denim jeans.
CHAS CAREY: Don't deny that denim. Get your hands out of those oh-so-convenient pockets and put them together for j-j-jeans.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] And in the other, we've got journalist and radio producer Daniel Alarcón here to put his heart and soul into team sneakers.
DANIEL ALARCON: I'm a freaker for the sneaker.
[LAUGHTER]
OK, Chas, come on, man. You killed me on that one.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all, we've got Elsa from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Elsa loves all things theater, whether it's acting, singing, or tap dancing, or maybe doing all three at once. Welcome, Elsa.
ELSA: Hi. I'm so happy to be here.
MOLLY BLOOM: We are so happy that you're here. So Elsa, you are very fashionable, and you really like clothes.
ELSA: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: So I'm wondering, do you already have a preference over jeans or sneakers?
ELSA: Hmm. Well, when I was little, I didn't like jeans because they didn't always fit me that great because they were always really tight. But now that I'm older, I found, I guess, jeans that fit me better. And there are so many different kinds and different ways that you can style them yourself.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mm-hmm.
ELSA: And then sneakers, I would say I think-- I used to think of them more as a sporty kind of wear when I was younger. And then I got my first pair of canvas high-tops, and that was kind of the breakthrough for me when I was like, oh, the sneakers can be fashionable, OK.
MOLLY BLOOM: Definitely.
ELSA: And then I got the-- well, for my birthday, I got this personalized custom pair of canvas high-tops--
MOLLY BLOOM: Whoa.
ELSA: --which was really cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Please tell me how they're customized.
ELSA: Yes. It is on the Converse website, where--
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
ELSA: --you can customize and kind of make your own sneakers.
MOLLY BLOOM: Like in different colors?
ELSA: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, man. So what did you choose?
ELSA: I did purple and black and this kind of-- a little bit of pink but a lot of purple and black. And then I did a high-top. And I remember I did my own laces, and it was like the yin and yang symbol.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh nice.
ELSA: Yeah. [GIGGLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Super cool. You are very fashionable indeed. So I'm wondering, do you wear jeans and sneakers at the same time?
ELSA: Yes, all the time, all the time.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is going to be an excellent debate today. So will Elsa get down with dungarees or be persuaded by cool kicks? There's no telling. Elsa, are you ready to judge this thing?
ELSA: I am so ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then let's review the rules of the game.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Round 1 is the Declaration of Greatness, where our debaters present fact-filled arguments in favor of their side, and each will have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. Then we've got the Micro-Round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. Round 3 is the Sneak Attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got The Final Six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Our judge, Elsa, will award 2 points in the first round, one for her favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration she likes best. She'll award 1 point in each round after that, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, SmashBoom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. All right, Elsa, Chas, and Daniel, are you ready?
ELSA: Yes.
DANIEL ALARCON: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right.
DANIEL ALARCON: Pants on. Can't lose.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Declaration of Greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: We flipped a coin, and Chas, you're up first. Tell us why jeans are genius.
CHAS CAREY: I wanted to know about being cool.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
So I called my friend Andrew Martin. Andrew is a writer. That's cool. His most recent book is called Cool for America. That's very cool. He also went to college with me. That's not really cool. Andrew, what is cool?
ANDREW MARTIN: It's hard to define. You know it when you see it.
CHAS CAREY: Were we cool in college?
ANDREW MARTIN: We were definitely not cool. At most, we were aspirationally cool.
CHAS CAREY: We looked cool.
ANDREW MARTIN: I looked cool, sometimes. You wore a lot of Rolling Stones T-shirts and jeans that were too tight for your big legs.
CHAS CAREY: Those jeans were very cool.
ANDREW MARTIN: The jeans were cool. Jeans, in general, are cool. I don't know if wearing them made you cool.
CHAS CAREY: I did my best to emphasize their coolness.
ANDREW MARTIN: Didn't you put them in the freezer instead of washing them?
CHAS CAREY: Yes.
ANDREW MARTIN: It's a miracle any of us still talk to you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHAS CAREY: Go ahead. Ask the obvious. Chas, why on earth did you put your jeans in the freezer besides the fact that it made them literally "cool"? Get it?
[ICE CLANKING ON GLASS]
OK. Well, I'd heard that freezing your jeans kills odor-causing germs without damaging the pants. Unfortunately, that's a myth. So why wouldn't I just wash them? Turns out the longer you wait to wash them, the more your jeans will shape themselves around you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Do you keep your phone in your front pocket?
[NOTIFICATION TONE RINGS]
You'll start to see the ghost of its outline on your jeans. Do you walk everywhere?
[STEPS STRIDING]
The hems of your jeans will start to fray in a way that reflects your gait. If you're a skater, you might start to see the fabric get a little baggy around your knees. There'll be nothing else like them because there's no one else like you. That is very cool. Jeans can take all this wear and tear because they're tough.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Modern jeans were developed by Jacob Davis and Levi Strauss in the Old West back in 1873. Davis was a tailor. He kept meeting customers with the same problem.
[CLOTH RIPPING]
Yep, their pants were tearing. Now, these folks couldn't exactly order new pants online. This was years before the telephone, let alone the internet. Plus, Jacob's customers were often out in the wilderness or down in the mines. Their clothes had to last. So Jacob took his problem to Levi Strauss, a guy who sold a sturdy fabric called denim. Together, the two of them patented a new style of pants with metal rivets that strengthened the key areas. And so many future generations took up these tough work pants as ways of expressing themselves.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Back in the 1950s, when suits and khakis were still the norm, young actors like James Dean and Marlon Brando became fashion icons overnight by throwing on white T-shirts and simple blue jeans.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Flared bell-bottoms hit the streets in the 1960s.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Baggy wide-leg jeans dominated the 1990s. Today, they're equally at home, at work, and at fashion shows. People keep coming back to jeans as symbols of counterculture, of youth, of cool.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Anyone can get a pair, but everyone that wears jeans winds up with pants that reflect who they are. They're unique, they're strong, and above all else, they're cool. You don't even need to put them in the freezer.
ANDREW MARTIN: Did we have food in there? Did your jeans contaminate our ice cream?
CHAS CAREY: I want to talk to a lawyer.
ANDREW MARTIN: You are a lawyer.
CHAS CAREY: This interview is over.
MOLLY BLOOM: A very, very cool argument for jeans there. Elsa, what stood out to you about Chas' Declaration of Greatness?
ELSA: Well, I love that he included how they all stood out in different time periods. I thought that was really cool, and how they developed over the years, I thought that was pretty cool to include. And what he did--
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah. [LAUGHS]
ELSA: --put them in the freezer-- that's pretty cool. [CHUCKLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Very good work. All right.
DANIEL ALARCON: That argument leaves me cold.
[LAUGHTER]
Oh. Oh.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Daniel, it's time for your rebuttal. Time to fray Chas' argument. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
[TIMER TICKING]
DANIEL ALARCON: Look, I'm not impressed by Chas' frozen, dirty jeans. As a survivor of the acid-washed jeans era, I think those arguments were disingenuous.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh. [CHUCKLES]
ELSA: Ooh.
DANIEL ALARCON: Look, these are damaging to people's psyches. Like, no one's ever put on a pair of sneakers and asked, do these sneakers make me look fat? Sneakers are comfort and joy. Jeans are bland and heavy. It's going to be like 90 degrees in New York this week. Do you think I'm going to walk around wearing heavy cotton blankets on my legs? No, thanks. Let's sell it this way. What's the last thing you did before you left the house today?
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
DANIEL ALARCON: You put on your kicks.
MOLLY BLOOM: --time.
DANIEL ALARCON: Sneakers, that's how you know when it's time to go.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
CHAS CAREY: Listen, what's cooler than being cool? Ice cold. [SHIVERING]
[LAUGHTER]
DANIEL ALARCON: Maybe in this heat, I would put my jeans in the freezer--
CHAS CAREY: See?
DANIEL ALARCON: --because it's summer.
CHAS CAREY: See?
DANIEL ALARCON: Maybe.
CHAS CAREY: That's practical and serves practical purpose.
DANIEL ALARCON: Yeah, yeah, I don't have-- I don't know.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, it's Daniel's turn. Tell us why sneakers are the "sneak boom best."
DANIEL ALARCON: Our story begins in the United States in the 1920s, a time before TV, when folks were trading in their horse and buggy for cars.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
And somewhere in a high school gymnasium, there's a middle-aged guy showing off a relatively new sport that's just starting to catch on. You may have heard of it-- basketball.
[BASKETBALL SHOOTS INTO THE RIM]
And this guy, as much as he was showcasing this fun new sport, what he was really selling were the shoes on his feet.
[SHOES SQUEAKING]
SUBJECT 1: Who is this guy, and what's on his feet?
SUBJECT 2: No clue. But I've never seen shoes do that. He's got fancier footwork than a flapper frolicking on Friday night.
DANIEL ALARCON: His name was Chuck Taylor of Converse All Stars fame. Chuck Taylors, a.k.a. chucks, these high-top canvas shoes, long laces with a rubber toe-- the soles are important to vulcanize rubber, a new super tough, durable material-- these were the first sneakers to serve not only as athletic equipment but as markers of style. Since then, more than a billion have been sold.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Those shoes launched a revolution. Sneakers became an essential part of the culture, iconic, ubiquitous symbols of cool. But let's start with the basics. If you want to know what makes sneakers so great, think of them as tools that allow the human body to fulfill its potential. You want to run faster?
[STEPS RUNNING]
There are sneakers for that. You want to jump higher?
[BOING]
There are sneakers for that, too. There are sneakers specifically for basketball with ankle support and sticky grip laced up tight and ready to hit the court. And if what you want to do isn't a sport, it's just, I don't know, walking, well, let me tell you, there's literally nothing you can put on your feet as comfortable as a pair of sneakers.
Look, I've been wearing jeans and sneakers basically every day since I was about eight years old. Jeans are great. But the pair of Levi's I wore back in third grade is essentially indistinguishable from the pair I'm wearing today, except while it was sized for a kid. And I could go even further.
My jeans aren't really that different from the ones worn by gold miners back in the 1800s. Jeans are jeans are jeans. But sneakers? No, no, no, no. Sneakers are both classic, like Chuck Taylors, and innovative-- colorful, wild, and free, special, like you. No matter your mood or your style, there's a pair for you.
I've gone through periods where I liked high-tops, where I liked bright fluorescent colors, where I was kicking back with earth tones only. Sneakers are like works of art you can wear literally. There are sneakers in galleries and even a museum in Tokyo dedicated to sneakers.
SUBJECT 3: Oh, look at this one. See how the light catches the laces? So impressionistic. I could stare at these all day.
SUBJECT 4: Stare? I just want to wear it. Those would look sick on my feet.
DANIEL ALARCON: When we get dressed in the morning, sneakers are one more way for each of us to tell the story of who we are. I'll leave you with this. In 2017, a retro pair of Jordans were rereleased, and more than 500 people camped out in New York City for two days, 48 hours just to get a pair. And you know what? Scenes like these aren't even that uncommon. It happens all the time because of what sneakers mean. Hundreds of people lining up overnight, jittery from the excitement and anticipation, unable to sleep for a pair of sneakers. But jeans? Well, snooze.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, that was a very versatile argument there for sneakers. Elsa, what did you think? What stood out to you there?
ELSA: I like how he described the different kinds of styles you could do and what differed them from jeans, like how you can kind of create them to be your own. I really liked that.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Well, Chas, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to put a dent in Daniel's Declaration, and your time starts now.
[TIMER TICKING]
CHAS CAREY: OK, durable? First off, I go through chucks like butter. Come on. They're not durable. And all that innovation, it's not your innovation. It's not your customization. Even custom kicks are choices that a corporation presents to you on a website. You are buying the illusion of originality, not the actual originality of the fabric that frays around you like jeans. As for camping out, yeah, people buy sneakers not to wear them but to look at them or to sell them. They're not practical. They're a commodity. They're a part of a corporate culture, not anything original or cool like jeans are, my friend. So--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
DANIEL ALARCON: Wow. Elsa, did you like how he insulted you--
[LAUGHTER]
--for being a corporate shill?
CHAS CAREY: And you--
DANIEL ALARCON: I don't know.
CHAS CAREY: --are not--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
DANIEL ALARCON: --are you, man?
CHAS CAREY: --insult Elsa. All I'm saying is the Converse website is not an original place.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
DANIEL ALARCON: My argument has "sole."
ELSA: Oh, man.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. [LAUGHS]
CHAS CAREY: "Sole." I get it. I get it.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elsa, it is time to give 1 point to the Declaration of Greatness you liked best and 1 point to the most compelling rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one side win you over with their top-notch logic, impress you with fun facts? Did they make you laugh? Whatever the criteria, it's up to you. Award your points, but don't tell us who you're giving them to. Have you made your decision?
ELSA: Mm-hmm.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: She has. Wonderful. All right, Chas and Daniel, how are you feeling so far?
CHAS CAREY: Deep in the weave now.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES]
DANIEL ALARCON: Yeah, I know. This is good. This is fun.
CHAS CAREY: This is fun.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] Well, it's time for a quick break. Take a second to boogie in your blue jeans or bunny ear your laces.
ELSA: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 5: You're watching State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hey, y'all. It's me, your number one debate pal, Taylor Lincoln.
TODD DOUGLAS: And me, the other number one debate pal, Todd Douglas.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Ugh. They can't have two number one debate pals, Todd.
TODD DOUGLAS: Sure, they can. Today, we got an "out of this world" logical fallacy, which is a debate mistake that weakens your argument.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's right. Check out this argument between two aliens looking to invade our humble planet.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ZORB: OK, Numis, the time has come. Let's just shimmy our saucer down there and take over that planet. I say we start by asking the humans to surrender.
NUMIS: Wait, Zorb. Did you say humans, those weird-looking things with noses, where their face foot should be?
ZORB: Yes, they are clearly in charge. There are more of them than anything else.
NUMIS: Where did you get that info from?
ZORB: I found a device called a TV, and it was all humans all the time.
NUMIS: Well, hold on to your face foot, Zorb, because humans are not the largest animal group on Earth. It's insects.
ZORB: Those devastatingly handsome creatures that crawl and fly?
NUMIS: Yep. According to local Earth research, it says there are around 200 million insects for each human living on the planet. At any given moment, it's estimated there are 10 quintillion insects alive and only 7 billion or so humans. Did you even read our fact sheet before coming over here?
ZORB: No. I'm sorry. I cannot believe that there are more insects than humans. I mean, I didn't see a single insect in the hundreds of seconds of TV I looked at. And there's no show called Everybody Loves Insects, but there is one about a creature called a Raymond, who is a human. Case closed.
[SAUCER LANDING]
[BUZZING]
TODD DOUGLAS: Wow. Zorb is making a total UFO right there.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Unidentified Flying Object?
TODD DOUGLAS: No, Ultimate Fallacy Oopsie. It's the personal incredulity fallacy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Right. That's the idea that just because you can't believe something is true doesn't mean it isn't true.
TODD DOUGLAS: Facts are facts, whether or not you believe in them. Speaking of which, should we be worried about the aliens invading us?
[THEME MUSIC]
TAYLOR LINCOLN: It's just a skit, Todd.
TODD DOUGLAS: I knew that. See you next time on--
BOTH: State of Debate.
[THEME MUSIC] Best Boom Smash. Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You are listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ELSA: And I'm your judge, Elsa.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elsa, how is it going? Are you enjoying the debate?
ELSA: Yes, I am. It's getting pretty tense in here, so I-- that's a sign of a good debate [INAUDIBLE].
MOLLY BLOOM: Totally. And what's the one thing you learned today that you didn't know before?
ELSA: Well, that Chuck Taylors were invented in the 1920s and that jeans were like-- started to be more of a fashion icon in the '50s, where they started to kind of come out and show that they could be fashionable.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, these all go back way longer than I knew or thought. All right, so before we jump back in, I just want to say we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Check out this epic idea we got from Ethan.
ETHAN: Hi, I'm Ethan. My debate idea for the future is Dr. Strange versus Thor.
ELSA: What a "Marvel-ous" idea.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] We'll check back with Ethan at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win.
ELSA: And now it's back to today's debate, jeans versus sneakers.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round 2, the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Micro-Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today's Micro-Round challenge is of the future. Describe the jeans or sneakers of the future. What do they look like? Do they have new cool features? Does anything awesome happen when you put them on? Chas went first last time, so Daniel, you're up. Let's hear about the footwear of the future.
DANIEL ALARCON: So first, let's recap. Sneakers began as athletic shoes with sticky soles that help you stick to the basketball court. Pretty cool, but it stands to reason that in the future, sneakers will have--
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 5: (IN GOD-LIKE VOICE) Super grip.
DANIEL ALARCON: You heard right, super grip, like the kind that helps you walk on walls. You can turn it on or off, but when you need it, the sneakers of the future let you stick to the walls or to the ceiling.
[POP]
Perfect for parkour, great for mountain climbing, but useful in other contexts as well. Need to change a light bulb?
[SQUEAKING]
[TING]
SUBJECT 5: (IN GOD-LIKE VOICE) Super grip.
DANIEL ALARCON: Cat stuck in a tree?
[CAT MEOWS]
Time for--
SUBJECT 5: Super grip.
DANIEL ALARCON: Stuck in a crowd, want to break free? Flip a switch on your new super futuristic sneakers and climb up the wall and over the poor schlubs stuck below. They'll swoon and marvel at you and your fantastical sneakers. They'll wonder aloud--
SUBJECT 6: What are those shoes?
SUBJECT 7: Wow. Those are the new grip-tech Air Maxes?
SUBJECT 6: Whoa.
SUBJECT 8: Those are the bomb.
SUBJECT 7: I got to get a pair like that. My feet are yammering at me for new shoes. Look at your sneaks, bruh.
SUBJECT 5: Super grip.
DANIEL ALARCON: Super Grip Kicks for those who make their own way. Patent pending.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] Wow. Those sneakers would really turn our world upside down in a good way. All right, Chas, it's your turn. What's the skinny on jeans down the line?
[FUTURISTIC TONE]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 9: (ROBOTIC VOICE) Good day, consumer, and welcome to the future. Much has changed. Yes, we have perfected flying cars. You may have also noticed flying cats due to a typo on the car blueprints.
[CAT SNARLING]
And fashion. Yes. Surely, you have seen the 15 million varieties of sneaker now in existence-- skate sneakers, hovercraft sneakers, quantum teleportation sneakers. Frankly, it's tiresome, which is why I'm pleased to tell you that the jeans of the future are exactly the same. Why mess with perfection? Jeans of the future still have five pockets, just as they did back in 1901.
There's still that tiny one originally designed for a pocket watch. Do you carry a pocket watch? Probably not. But that watch pocket remains because it is useful and stylish. You may use it for storing coins or headphones. We use it for personal force field generators to help deflect any cats that get too close.
[GENERATOR DEFLECTING]
[BOING]
[CAT SNARLING]
Except for an unfortunate few months in 2078, when we experimented with shin pouches for quantum sneaker storage, we have maintained the simplicity, durability, and originality of jeans. When you put on a pair, remember that you're closer to the future than you might think.
[FUTURISTIC TONE]
MOLLY BLOOM: Jeans are forever.
DANIEL ALARCON: I'm more interested in the flying cats.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elsa, what stood out to you here about Daniel and Chas' Micro-Rounds?
ELSA: Hmm. Well, I love that jeans still have the same simplicity that they've always had, that they're keeping the same. They're like-- they don't have to change.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, you don't mess with the classic.
ELSA: Exactly. And then I really liked with sneakers that you could save cats from trees and go on walls.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah.
ELSA: That was pretty cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Would kind of turn you into a superhero. OK, Elsa.
CHAS CAREY: All goes back to the cats.
[LAUGHTER]
DANIEL ALARCON: All goes back to cats.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right.
DANIEL ALARCON: Well, I think if the cats can fly, then you won't have to save them from trees. So I will give--
CHAS CAREY: There you go.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fair.
DANIEL ALARCON: --[INAUDIBLE] Chas that.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very fair. [CHUCKLES] All right, Elsa, it's time to award a point. But don't tell us who it's going to. Again, the criteria is up to you. Which one sounded like you'd like to own that? Which one sounded more fun? Who made you laugh? Who made you think? Again, the criteria, totally up to you. Have you made your decision?
ELSA: Yes, I have.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
SUBJECTS: Aha! Hooha!
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Sneak Attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: Your Sneak Attack is speed facts. For this Sneak Attack challenge, we want to know how many facts can you get out in one breath, whispering, shouting, singing, whatever you have to do to get the most facts in before you take a breath. Does that make sense?
CHAS CAREY: Practicing my breathing now. [BREATHES]
DANIEL ALARCON: Get ready for a torrent of adjectives, also.
MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect.
[LAUGHTER]
All right, Daniel went first last time, so Chas, you're up. You've got one breath to make us keen on jeans. We're going to be listening, see when that breath happens.
CHAS CAREY: [INHALES]
MOLLY BLOOM: So whenever you're ready, take a deep breath and let it fly.
CHAS CAREY: OK, so denim has been a workwear for centuries, and I mean, denim, right? Both France and Italy claim that they invented it, but actually, the fabric denim, which is strong-- part of it, people think that it comes originally from India. I mean, the idea of the word "dungaree" is an Indian word. It's a word from the Indian subcontinent. [BREATHES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
CHAS CAREY: No, I breathed!
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: That was good.
DANIEL ALARCON: Jeez.
MOLLY BLOOM: I learned something. I didn't know that about the word "dungaree."
ELSA: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: So we got some facts in that breath. All right, Daniel.
DANIEL ALARCON: Oh no.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're up next.
DANIEL ALARCON: I'm so nervous.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Take a big breath in.
DANIEL ALARCON: OK. [BREATHING HEAVILY] Sneakers are the very coolest thing you can put on your feet, and you don't ever want to wear anything except sneakers because sneakers are what make you look cool and feel happy and love yourself every single day of your life. [EXHALES]
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice. That was a good affirmation. I can see myself saying that in the mirror every morning. [LAUGHS]
CHAS CAREY: Yeah, but is it a fact, though?
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
DANIEL ALARCON: Uh, well.
CHAS CAREY: I mean, I can say that in the mirror all I want, but I don't think it will be true.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elsa, time to award your fourth point. Again, criteria up to you. Who impressed you with the facts? Who talked longer? Who had excellent breath control? Have you made your decision?
ELSA: Yes, I have.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Then it's time for our final round.
[THEME MUSIC]
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: Daniel, you've got just six more words to sum up why sneakers are the smash boom best.
DANIEL ALARCON: Works of art for your feet.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mm, very nice. Chas, it's your turn. Tell us why jeans are the best.
CHAS CAREY: Simple, elegant, strong, unique. They're genius.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Nicely done. All right, Elsa, it's time to award a final point for The Final Six. Have you awarded your point?
ELSA: Yes.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. All right, I want you to tally up the points. Let me know when you're done tallying.
ELSA: Mm-hmm.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. All right, drum roll, please. And the winner is--
[DRUM ROLL]
ELSA: Jeans.
CHAS CAREY: Aye! I walked away with it.
[LAUGHTER]
DANIEL ALARCON: What were you wearing as you walked away with it?
[LAUGHTER]
CHAS CAREY: Bare feet, my friend.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elsa, was there a moment that really swayed you over to jeans?
ELSA: I mean, The Final Six, I was tied.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh.
ELSA: They were tied.
MOLLY BLOOM: It was a close debate.
DANIEL ALARCON: Oh.
ELSA: They were tied. It was very close.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. We know it's a good debate when it comes at the end.
ELSA: Yup.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. So what was your favorite moment of the show?
ELSA: The Sneak Attack was really fun.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah. [LAUGHS]
ELSA: And it was-- I know it was probably chaotic for you guys, but when you're listening to it, it's really fun. [CHUCKLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: We enjoyed. We enjoyed [INAUDIBLE].
ELSA: Yes, we enjoy it.
[LAUGHTER]
CHAS CAREY: I'm excited to hear me literally trip over my words there.
[LAUGHTER]
Daniel, it was fantastic. I really admire your fancy debating footwork. I mean, and you have cool in spades, my friend, not just on your feet. So congrats.
DANIEL ALARCON: Awww.
CHAS CAREY: Really amazing work. And it's a pleasure being a part of this with you.
DANIEL ALARCON: Thank you, Chas. And likewise, I was almost won over by your argument, and I-- you were a worthy opponent, and congratulations on your win. I'm going to go throw my jeans in the freezer right this moment because it's growing hot in New York City.
[LAUGHTER]
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: And that's it for today's debate battle. Elsa crowned jeans the smash boom best, but what about you?
ELSA: Head to SmashBoom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On! and APM Studios.
DANIEL ALARCON: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rose DuPont, and Ruby Guthrie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Rachel Brees and Erik Stromstad.
CHAS CAREY: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.
DANIEL ALARCON: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, Anna Weggel, and Nico Wisler. Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman, and the APM Studios' executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to some nice people. Chas, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?
CHAS CAREY: Thanks so much to Andrew Martin for helping me out, to my wife, Kristina Wallace, and our two kids, Arden and Sebastian, who look great in both jeans and sneakers.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] And how about you, Daniel? Any special shout-outs?
DANIEL ALARCON: Yeah, I want to give a special shout-out to my two sons, who are real sneakerheads, León and Eliseo.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Elsa, how about you? Any special thanks you want to give today?
ELSA: My parents and my friends for supporting me. [CHUCKLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Awww. That's so nice. OK, before we go, let's check in with Ethan and see who he thinks would win his Dr. Strange versus Thor debate.
ETHAN: I think that definitely, Dr. Strange would win because he has all these cool powers and the time stone.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown drag-out debate? Head to SmashBoom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
ELSA: See ya!
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
(SINGING) Ooh, you're the smash boom best. Ooh, put your [INAUDIBLE] the test. Ooh, you're the smash boom best. Ooh, [INAUDIBLE] the rest. You're the smash boom best. You're the smash boom best.
ELSA: The show for people with big opinions.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a fashionable face-off between practical pants and sporty shoes. It's jeans versus sneakers. In one corner, we've got writer, actor, and attorney Chas Carey defending dynamite denim jeans.
CHAS CAREY: Don't deny that denim. Get your hands out of those oh-so-convenient pockets and put them together for j-j-jeans.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] And in the other, we've got journalist and radio producer Daniel Alarcón here to put his heart and soul into team sneakers.
DANIEL ALARCON: I'm a freaker for the sneaker.
[LAUGHTER]
OK, Chas, come on, man. You killed me on that one.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all, we've got Elsa from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Elsa loves all things theater, whether it's acting, singing, or tap dancing, or maybe doing all three at once. Welcome, Elsa.
ELSA: Hi. I'm so happy to be here.
MOLLY BLOOM: We are so happy that you're here. So Elsa, you are very fashionable, and you really like clothes.
ELSA: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: So I'm wondering, do you already have a preference over jeans or sneakers?
ELSA: Hmm. Well, when I was little, I didn't like jeans because they didn't always fit me that great because they were always really tight. But now that I'm older, I found, I guess, jeans that fit me better. And there are so many different kinds and different ways that you can style them yourself.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mm-hmm.
ELSA: And then sneakers, I would say I think-- I used to think of them more as a sporty kind of wear when I was younger. And then I got my first pair of canvas high-tops, and that was kind of the breakthrough for me when I was like, oh, the sneakers can be fashionable, OK.
MOLLY BLOOM: Definitely.
ELSA: And then I got the-- well, for my birthday, I got this personalized custom pair of canvas high-tops--
MOLLY BLOOM: Whoa.
ELSA: --which was really cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Please tell me how they're customized.
ELSA: Yes. It is on the Converse website, where--
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
ELSA: --you can customize and kind of make your own sneakers.
MOLLY BLOOM: Like in different colors?
ELSA: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, man. So what did you choose?
ELSA: I did purple and black and this kind of-- a little bit of pink but a lot of purple and black. And then I did a high-top. And I remember I did my own laces, and it was like the yin and yang symbol.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh nice.
ELSA: Yeah. [GIGGLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Super cool. You are very fashionable indeed. So I'm wondering, do you wear jeans and sneakers at the same time?
ELSA: Yes, all the time, all the time.
MOLLY BLOOM: This is going to be an excellent debate today. So will Elsa get down with dungarees or be persuaded by cool kicks? There's no telling. Elsa, are you ready to judge this thing?
ELSA: I am so ready.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then let's review the rules of the game.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Round 1 is the Declaration of Greatness, where our debaters present fact-filled arguments in favor of their side, and each will have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. Then we've got the Micro-Round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. Round 3 is the Sneak Attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got The Final Six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Our judge, Elsa, will award 2 points in the first round, one for her favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration she likes best. She'll award 1 point in each round after that, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, SmashBoom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. All right, Elsa, Chas, and Daniel, are you ready?
ELSA: Yes.
DANIEL ALARCON: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right.
DANIEL ALARCON: Pants on. Can't lose.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Declaration of Greatness.
MOLLY BLOOM: We flipped a coin, and Chas, you're up first. Tell us why jeans are genius.
CHAS CAREY: I wanted to know about being cool.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
So I called my friend Andrew Martin. Andrew is a writer. That's cool. His most recent book is called Cool for America. That's very cool. He also went to college with me. That's not really cool. Andrew, what is cool?
ANDREW MARTIN: It's hard to define. You know it when you see it.
CHAS CAREY: Were we cool in college?
ANDREW MARTIN: We were definitely not cool. At most, we were aspirationally cool.
CHAS CAREY: We looked cool.
ANDREW MARTIN: I looked cool, sometimes. You wore a lot of Rolling Stones T-shirts and jeans that were too tight for your big legs.
CHAS CAREY: Those jeans were very cool.
ANDREW MARTIN: The jeans were cool. Jeans, in general, are cool. I don't know if wearing them made you cool.
CHAS CAREY: I did my best to emphasize their coolness.
ANDREW MARTIN: Didn't you put them in the freezer instead of washing them?
CHAS CAREY: Yes.
ANDREW MARTIN: It's a miracle any of us still talk to you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
CHAS CAREY: Go ahead. Ask the obvious. Chas, why on earth did you put your jeans in the freezer besides the fact that it made them literally "cool"? Get it?
[ICE CLANKING ON GLASS]
OK. Well, I'd heard that freezing your jeans kills odor-causing germs without damaging the pants. Unfortunately, that's a myth. So why wouldn't I just wash them? Turns out the longer you wait to wash them, the more your jeans will shape themselves around you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Do you keep your phone in your front pocket?
[NOTIFICATION TONE RINGS]
You'll start to see the ghost of its outline on your jeans. Do you walk everywhere?
[STEPS STRIDING]
The hems of your jeans will start to fray in a way that reflects your gait. If you're a skater, you might start to see the fabric get a little baggy around your knees. There'll be nothing else like them because there's no one else like you. That is very cool. Jeans can take all this wear and tear because they're tough.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Modern jeans were developed by Jacob Davis and Levi Strauss in the Old West back in 1873. Davis was a tailor. He kept meeting customers with the same problem.
[CLOTH RIPPING]
Yep, their pants were tearing. Now, these folks couldn't exactly order new pants online. This was years before the telephone, let alone the internet. Plus, Jacob's customers were often out in the wilderness or down in the mines. Their clothes had to last. So Jacob took his problem to Levi Strauss, a guy who sold a sturdy fabric called denim. Together, the two of them patented a new style of pants with metal rivets that strengthened the key areas. And so many future generations took up these tough work pants as ways of expressing themselves.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Back in the 1950s, when suits and khakis were still the norm, young actors like James Dean and Marlon Brando became fashion icons overnight by throwing on white T-shirts and simple blue jeans.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Flared bell-bottoms hit the streets in the 1960s.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Baggy wide-leg jeans dominated the 1990s. Today, they're equally at home, at work, and at fashion shows. People keep coming back to jeans as symbols of counterculture, of youth, of cool.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Anyone can get a pair, but everyone that wears jeans winds up with pants that reflect who they are. They're unique, they're strong, and above all else, they're cool. You don't even need to put them in the freezer.
ANDREW MARTIN: Did we have food in there? Did your jeans contaminate our ice cream?
CHAS CAREY: I want to talk to a lawyer.
ANDREW MARTIN: You are a lawyer.
CHAS CAREY: This interview is over.
MOLLY BLOOM: A very, very cool argument for jeans there. Elsa, what stood out to you about Chas' Declaration of Greatness?
ELSA: Well, I love that he included how they all stood out in different time periods. I thought that was really cool, and how they developed over the years, I thought that was pretty cool to include. And what he did--
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah. [LAUGHS]
ELSA: --put them in the freezer-- that's pretty cool. [CHUCKLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Very good work. All right.
DANIEL ALARCON: That argument leaves me cold.
[LAUGHTER]
Oh. Oh.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Daniel, it's time for your rebuttal. Time to fray Chas' argument. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.
[TIMER TICKING]
DANIEL ALARCON: Look, I'm not impressed by Chas' frozen, dirty jeans. As a survivor of the acid-washed jeans era, I think those arguments were disingenuous.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh. [CHUCKLES]
ELSA: Ooh.
DANIEL ALARCON: Look, these are damaging to people's psyches. Like, no one's ever put on a pair of sneakers and asked, do these sneakers make me look fat? Sneakers are comfort and joy. Jeans are bland and heavy. It's going to be like 90 degrees in New York this week. Do you think I'm going to walk around wearing heavy cotton blankets on my legs? No, thanks. Let's sell it this way. What's the last thing you did before you left the house today?
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
DANIEL ALARCON: You put on your kicks.
MOLLY BLOOM: --time.
DANIEL ALARCON: Sneakers, that's how you know when it's time to go.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
CHAS CAREY: Listen, what's cooler than being cool? Ice cold. [SHIVERING]
[LAUGHTER]
DANIEL ALARCON: Maybe in this heat, I would put my jeans in the freezer--
CHAS CAREY: See?
DANIEL ALARCON: --because it's summer.
CHAS CAREY: See?
DANIEL ALARCON: Maybe.
CHAS CAREY: That's practical and serves practical purpose.
DANIEL ALARCON: Yeah, yeah, I don't have-- I don't know.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, it's Daniel's turn. Tell us why sneakers are the "sneak boom best."
DANIEL ALARCON: Our story begins in the United States in the 1920s, a time before TV, when folks were trading in their horse and buggy for cars.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
And somewhere in a high school gymnasium, there's a middle-aged guy showing off a relatively new sport that's just starting to catch on. You may have heard of it-- basketball.
[BASKETBALL SHOOTS INTO THE RIM]
And this guy, as much as he was showcasing this fun new sport, what he was really selling were the shoes on his feet.
[SHOES SQUEAKING]
SUBJECT 1: Who is this guy, and what's on his feet?
SUBJECT 2: No clue. But I've never seen shoes do that. He's got fancier footwork than a flapper frolicking on Friday night.
DANIEL ALARCON: His name was Chuck Taylor of Converse All Stars fame. Chuck Taylors, a.k.a. chucks, these high-top canvas shoes, long laces with a rubber toe-- the soles are important to vulcanize rubber, a new super tough, durable material-- these were the first sneakers to serve not only as athletic equipment but as markers of style. Since then, more than a billion have been sold.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Those shoes launched a revolution. Sneakers became an essential part of the culture, iconic, ubiquitous symbols of cool. But let's start with the basics. If you want to know what makes sneakers so great, think of them as tools that allow the human body to fulfill its potential. You want to run faster?
[STEPS RUNNING]
There are sneakers for that. You want to jump higher?
[BOING]
There are sneakers for that, too. There are sneakers specifically for basketball with ankle support and sticky grip laced up tight and ready to hit the court. And if what you want to do isn't a sport, it's just, I don't know, walking, well, let me tell you, there's literally nothing you can put on your feet as comfortable as a pair of sneakers.
Look, I've been wearing jeans and sneakers basically every day since I was about eight years old. Jeans are great. But the pair of Levi's I wore back in third grade is essentially indistinguishable from the pair I'm wearing today, except while it was sized for a kid. And I could go even further.
My jeans aren't really that different from the ones worn by gold miners back in the 1800s. Jeans are jeans are jeans. But sneakers? No, no, no, no. Sneakers are both classic, like Chuck Taylors, and innovative-- colorful, wild, and free, special, like you. No matter your mood or your style, there's a pair for you.
I've gone through periods where I liked high-tops, where I liked bright fluorescent colors, where I was kicking back with earth tones only. Sneakers are like works of art you can wear literally. There are sneakers in galleries and even a museum in Tokyo dedicated to sneakers.
SUBJECT 3: Oh, look at this one. See how the light catches the laces? So impressionistic. I could stare at these all day.
SUBJECT 4: Stare? I just want to wear it. Those would look sick on my feet.
DANIEL ALARCON: When we get dressed in the morning, sneakers are one more way for each of us to tell the story of who we are. I'll leave you with this. In 2017, a retro pair of Jordans were rereleased, and more than 500 people camped out in New York City for two days, 48 hours just to get a pair. And you know what? Scenes like these aren't even that uncommon. It happens all the time because of what sneakers mean. Hundreds of people lining up overnight, jittery from the excitement and anticipation, unable to sleep for a pair of sneakers. But jeans? Well, snooze.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow, that was a very versatile argument there for sneakers. Elsa, what did you think? What stood out to you there?
ELSA: I like how he described the different kinds of styles you could do and what differed them from jeans, like how you can kind of create them to be your own. I really liked that.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Well, Chas, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to put a dent in Daniel's Declaration, and your time starts now.
[TIMER TICKING]
CHAS CAREY: OK, durable? First off, I go through chucks like butter. Come on. They're not durable. And all that innovation, it's not your innovation. It's not your customization. Even custom kicks are choices that a corporation presents to you on a website. You are buying the illusion of originality, not the actual originality of the fabric that frays around you like jeans. As for camping out, yeah, people buy sneakers not to wear them but to look at them or to sell them. They're not practical. They're a commodity. They're a part of a corporate culture, not anything original or cool like jeans are, my friend. So--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
DANIEL ALARCON: Wow. Elsa, did you like how he insulted you--
[LAUGHTER]
--for being a corporate shill?
CHAS CAREY: And you--
DANIEL ALARCON: I don't know.
CHAS CAREY: --are not--
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
DANIEL ALARCON: --are you, man?
CHAS CAREY: --insult Elsa. All I'm saying is the Converse website is not an original place.
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
DANIEL ALARCON: My argument has "sole."
ELSA: Oh, man.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. [LAUGHS]
CHAS CAREY: "Sole." I get it. I get it.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elsa, it is time to give 1 point to the Declaration of Greatness you liked best and 1 point to the most compelling rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one side win you over with their top-notch logic, impress you with fun facts? Did they make you laugh? Whatever the criteria, it's up to you. Award your points, but don't tell us who you're giving them to. Have you made your decision?
ELSA: Mm-hmm.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: She has. Wonderful. All right, Chas and Daniel, how are you feeling so far?
CHAS CAREY: Deep in the weave now.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES]
DANIEL ALARCON: Yeah, I know. This is good. This is fun.
CHAS CAREY: This is fun.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] Well, it's time for a quick break. Take a second to boogie in your blue jeans or bunny ear your laces.
ELSA: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 5: You're watching State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hey, y'all. It's me, your number one debate pal, Taylor Lincoln.
TODD DOUGLAS: And me, the other number one debate pal, Todd Douglas.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Ugh. They can't have two number one debate pals, Todd.
TODD DOUGLAS: Sure, they can. Today, we got an "out of this world" logical fallacy, which is a debate mistake that weakens your argument.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's right. Check out this argument between two aliens looking to invade our humble planet.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ZORB: OK, Numis, the time has come. Let's just shimmy our saucer down there and take over that planet. I say we start by asking the humans to surrender.
NUMIS: Wait, Zorb. Did you say humans, those weird-looking things with noses, where their face foot should be?
ZORB: Yes, they are clearly in charge. There are more of them than anything else.
NUMIS: Where did you get that info from?
ZORB: I found a device called a TV, and it was all humans all the time.
NUMIS: Well, hold on to your face foot, Zorb, because humans are not the largest animal group on Earth. It's insects.
ZORB: Those devastatingly handsome creatures that crawl and fly?
NUMIS: Yep. According to local Earth research, it says there are around 200 million insects for each human living on the planet. At any given moment, it's estimated there are 10 quintillion insects alive and only 7 billion or so humans. Did you even read our fact sheet before coming over here?
ZORB: No. I'm sorry. I cannot believe that there are more insects than humans. I mean, I didn't see a single insect in the hundreds of seconds of TV I looked at. And there's no show called Everybody Loves Insects, but there is one about a creature called a Raymond, who is a human. Case closed.
[SAUCER LANDING]
[BUZZING]
TODD DOUGLAS: Wow. Zorb is making a total UFO right there.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Unidentified Flying Object?
TODD DOUGLAS: No, Ultimate Fallacy Oopsie. It's the personal incredulity fallacy.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Right. That's the idea that just because you can't believe something is true doesn't mean it isn't true.
TODD DOUGLAS: Facts are facts, whether or not you believe in them. Speaking of which, should we be worried about the aliens invading us?
[THEME MUSIC]
TAYLOR LINCOLN: It's just a skit, Todd.
TODD DOUGLAS: I knew that. See you next time on--
BOTH: State of Debate.
[THEME MUSIC] Best Boom Smash. Smash Boom Best.
MOLLY BLOOM: You are listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
ELSA: And I'm your judge, Elsa.
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elsa, how is it going? Are you enjoying the debate?
ELSA: Yes, I am. It's getting pretty tense in here, so I-- that's a sign of a good debate [INAUDIBLE].
MOLLY BLOOM: Totally. And what's the one thing you learned today that you didn't know before?
ELSA: Well, that Chuck Taylors were invented in the 1920s and that jeans were like-- started to be more of a fashion icon in the '50s, where they started to kind of come out and show that they could be fashionable.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, these all go back way longer than I knew or thought. All right, so before we jump back in, I just want to say we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Check out this epic idea we got from Ethan.
ETHAN: Hi, I'm Ethan. My debate idea for the future is Dr. Strange versus Thor.
ELSA: What a "Marvel-ous" idea.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] We'll check back with Ethan at the end of this episode to see which side he thinks should win.
ELSA: And now it's back to today's debate, jeans versus sneakers.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round 2, the--
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Micro-Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today's Micro-Round challenge is of the future. Describe the jeans or sneakers of the future. What do they look like? Do they have new cool features? Does anything awesome happen when you put them on? Chas went first last time, so Daniel, you're up. Let's hear about the footwear of the future.
DANIEL ALARCON: So first, let's recap. Sneakers began as athletic shoes with sticky soles that help you stick to the basketball court. Pretty cool, but it stands to reason that in the future, sneakers will have--
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 5: (IN GOD-LIKE VOICE) Super grip.
DANIEL ALARCON: You heard right, super grip, like the kind that helps you walk on walls. You can turn it on or off, but when you need it, the sneakers of the future let you stick to the walls or to the ceiling.
[POP]
Perfect for parkour, great for mountain climbing, but useful in other contexts as well. Need to change a light bulb?
[SQUEAKING]
[TING]
SUBJECT 5: (IN GOD-LIKE VOICE) Super grip.
DANIEL ALARCON: Cat stuck in a tree?
[CAT MEOWS]
Time for--
SUBJECT 5: Super grip.
DANIEL ALARCON: Stuck in a crowd, want to break free? Flip a switch on your new super futuristic sneakers and climb up the wall and over the poor schlubs stuck below. They'll swoon and marvel at you and your fantastical sneakers. They'll wonder aloud--
SUBJECT 6: What are those shoes?
SUBJECT 7: Wow. Those are the new grip-tech Air Maxes?
SUBJECT 6: Whoa.
SUBJECT 8: Those are the bomb.
SUBJECT 7: I got to get a pair like that. My feet are yammering at me for new shoes. Look at your sneaks, bruh.
SUBJECT 5: Super grip.
DANIEL ALARCON: Super Grip Kicks for those who make their own way. Patent pending.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] Wow. Those sneakers would really turn our world upside down in a good way. All right, Chas, it's your turn. What's the skinny on jeans down the line?
[FUTURISTIC TONE]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
SUBJECT 9: (ROBOTIC VOICE) Good day, consumer, and welcome to the future. Much has changed. Yes, we have perfected flying cars. You may have also noticed flying cats due to a typo on the car blueprints.
[CAT SNARLING]
And fashion. Yes. Surely, you have seen the 15 million varieties of sneaker now in existence-- skate sneakers, hovercraft sneakers, quantum teleportation sneakers. Frankly, it's tiresome, which is why I'm pleased to tell you that the jeans of the future are exactly the same. Why mess with perfection? Jeans of the future still have five pockets, just as they did back in 1901.
There's still that tiny one originally designed for a pocket watch. Do you carry a pocket watch? Probably not. But that watch pocket remains because it is useful and stylish. You may use it for storing coins or headphones. We use it for personal force field generators to help deflect any cats that get too close.
[GENERATOR DEFLECTING]
[BOING]
[CAT SNARLING]
Except for an unfortunate few months in 2078, when we experimented with shin pouches for quantum sneaker storage, we have maintained the simplicity, durability, and originality of jeans. When you put on a pair, remember that you're closer to the future than you might think.
[FUTURISTIC TONE]
MOLLY BLOOM: Jeans are forever.
DANIEL ALARCON: I'm more interested in the flying cats.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elsa, what stood out to you here about Daniel and Chas' Micro-Rounds?
ELSA: Hmm. Well, I love that jeans still have the same simplicity that they've always had, that they're keeping the same. They're like-- they don't have to change.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, you don't mess with the classic.
ELSA: Exactly. And then I really liked with sneakers that you could save cats from trees and go on walls.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah.
ELSA: That was pretty cool.
MOLLY BLOOM: Would kind of turn you into a superhero. OK, Elsa.
CHAS CAREY: All goes back to the cats.
[LAUGHTER]
DANIEL ALARCON: All goes back to cats.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right.
DANIEL ALARCON: Well, I think if the cats can fly, then you won't have to save them from trees. So I will give--
CHAS CAREY: There you go.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fair.
DANIEL ALARCON: --[INAUDIBLE] Chas that.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very fair. [CHUCKLES] All right, Elsa, it's time to award a point. But don't tell us who it's going to. Again, the criteria is up to you. Which one sounded like you'd like to own that? Which one sounded more fun? Who made you laugh? Who made you think? Again, the criteria, totally up to you. Have you made your decision?
ELSA: Yes, I have.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--
SUBJECTS: Aha! Hooha!
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Sneak Attack.
MOLLY BLOOM: Your Sneak Attack is speed facts. For this Sneak Attack challenge, we want to know how many facts can you get out in one breath, whispering, shouting, singing, whatever you have to do to get the most facts in before you take a breath. Does that make sense?
CHAS CAREY: Practicing my breathing now. [BREATHES]
DANIEL ALARCON: Get ready for a torrent of adjectives, also.
MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect.
[LAUGHTER]
All right, Daniel went first last time, so Chas, you're up. You've got one breath to make us keen on jeans. We're going to be listening, see when that breath happens.
CHAS CAREY: [INHALES]
MOLLY BLOOM: So whenever you're ready, take a deep breath and let it fly.
CHAS CAREY: OK, so denim has been a workwear for centuries, and I mean, denim, right? Both France and Italy claim that they invented it, but actually, the fabric denim, which is strong-- part of it, people think that it comes originally from India. I mean, the idea of the word "dungaree" is an Indian word. It's a word from the Indian subcontinent. [BREATHES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
CHAS CAREY: No, I breathed!
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: That was good.
DANIEL ALARCON: Jeez.
MOLLY BLOOM: I learned something. I didn't know that about the word "dungaree."
ELSA: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: So we got some facts in that breath. All right, Daniel.
DANIEL ALARCON: Oh no.
MOLLY BLOOM: You're up next.
DANIEL ALARCON: I'm so nervous.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Take a big breath in.
DANIEL ALARCON: OK. [BREATHING HEAVILY] Sneakers are the very coolest thing you can put on your feet, and you don't ever want to wear anything except sneakers because sneakers are what make you look cool and feel happy and love yourself every single day of your life. [EXHALES]
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice. That was a good affirmation. I can see myself saying that in the mirror every morning. [LAUGHS]
CHAS CAREY: Yeah, but is it a fact, though?
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]
DANIEL ALARCON: Uh, well.
CHAS CAREY: I mean, I can say that in the mirror all I want, but I don't think it will be true.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elsa, time to award your fourth point. Again, criteria up to you. Who impressed you with the facts? Who talked longer? Who had excellent breath control? Have you made your decision?
ELSA: Yes, I have.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Then it's time for our final round.
[THEME MUSIC]
MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: The Final Six.
MOLLY BLOOM: Daniel, you've got just six more words to sum up why sneakers are the smash boom best.
DANIEL ALARCON: Works of art for your feet.
MOLLY BLOOM: Mm, very nice. Chas, it's your turn. Tell us why jeans are the best.
CHAS CAREY: Simple, elegant, strong, unique. They're genius.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Nicely done. All right, Elsa, it's time to award a final point for The Final Six. Have you awarded your point?
ELSA: Yes.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. All right, I want you to tally up the points. Let me know when you're done tallying.
ELSA: Mm-hmm.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. All right, drum roll, please. And the winner is--
[DRUM ROLL]
ELSA: Jeans.
CHAS CAREY: Aye! I walked away with it.
[LAUGHTER]
DANIEL ALARCON: What were you wearing as you walked away with it?
[LAUGHTER]
CHAS CAREY: Bare feet, my friend.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: So Elsa, was there a moment that really swayed you over to jeans?
ELSA: I mean, The Final Six, I was tied.
MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh.
ELSA: They were tied.
MOLLY BLOOM: It was a close debate.
DANIEL ALARCON: Oh.
ELSA: They were tied. It was very close.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh. We know it's a good debate when it comes at the end.
ELSA: Yup.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. So what was your favorite moment of the show?
ELSA: The Sneak Attack was really fun.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah. [LAUGHS]
ELSA: And it was-- I know it was probably chaotic for you guys, but when you're listening to it, it's really fun. [CHUCKLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: We enjoyed. We enjoyed [INAUDIBLE].
ELSA: Yes, we enjoy it.
[LAUGHTER]
CHAS CAREY: I'm excited to hear me literally trip over my words there.
[LAUGHTER]
Daniel, it was fantastic. I really admire your fancy debating footwork. I mean, and you have cool in spades, my friend, not just on your feet. So congrats.
DANIEL ALARCON: Awww.
CHAS CAREY: Really amazing work. And it's a pleasure being a part of this with you.
DANIEL ALARCON: Thank you, Chas. And likewise, I was almost won over by your argument, and I-- you were a worthy opponent, and congratulations on your win. I'm going to go throw my jeans in the freezer right this moment because it's growing hot in New York City.
[LAUGHTER]
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: And that's it for today's debate battle. Elsa crowned jeans the smash boom best, but what about you?
ELSA: Head to SmashBoom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On! and APM Studios.
DANIEL ALARCON: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rose DuPont, and Ruby Guthrie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Rachel Brees and Erik Stromstad.
CHAS CAREY: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.
DANIEL ALARCON: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, Anna Weggel, and Nico Wisler. Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman, and the APM Studios' executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to some nice people. Chas, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?
CHAS CAREY: Thanks so much to Andrew Martin for helping me out, to my wife, Kristina Wallace, and our two kids, Arden and Sebastian, who look great in both jeans and sneakers.
MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] And how about you, Daniel? Any special shout-outs?
DANIEL ALARCON: Yeah, I want to give a special shout-out to my two sons, who are real sneakerheads, León and Eliseo.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Elsa, how about you? Any special thanks you want to give today?
ELSA: My parents and my friends for supporting me. [CHUCKLES]
MOLLY BLOOM: Awww. That's so nice. OK, before we go, let's check in with Ethan and see who he thinks would win his Dr. Strange versus Thor debate.
ETHAN: I think that definitely, Dr. Strange would win because he has all these cool powers and the time stone.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown drag-out debate? Head to SmashBoom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
ELSA: See ya!
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
(SINGING) Ooh, you're the smash boom best. Ooh, put your [INAUDIBLE] the test. Ooh, you're the smash boom best. Ooh, [INAUDIBLE] the rest. You're the smash boom best. You're the smash boom best.
Transcription services provided by 3Play Media.
