The queens of condiments go jar to jar in today’s yummy rumble. Give it up for mayo vs. mustard! In one corner, we’ve got comedian, actor and host of Forever Ago Joy Dolo defending mustard! In the other, it’s comedian, actor and writer Becky Abrams muscling it up for team mayo!
Which sandwich sidekick will take home first prize? There’s no telling. Vote below for the team YOU think won!
Also… do you have your Smarty Pass yet?? Get yours today for just $4/month (or $36/year) and get bonus episodes every month, and ad-free versions of every episode of Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Moment of Um, and Forever Ago. Visit www.smartypass.org to get your Smarty Pass today!
As an added bonus, your Smarty Pass will grant you access to a super special debate starring Sanden and Molly! Vote for the debate you want Molly and Sanden to tackle here.
Audio Transcript
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ANNOUNCER: From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
PRESLEY: The show for people with big opinions.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi. I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. The kings of condiments go jar to jar in today's yummy rumble. Give it up for Mayo versus Mustard.
In one corner, we have comedian, actor, writer, and host of Forever Ago, Joy Dolo, defending mustard.
JOY DOLO: You know, I was listening to Celine Dijon--
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
JOY DOLO: --over and over and over again on repe-dijon. And I mustard admit, Celine is from France, which experienced a mustard shortage recently. People were Pouponing all over it. It was, uh--
BECKY ABRAMS: Oh my god!
[LAUGHTER]
JOY DOLO: But I don't want to jab mayo at all. I just want this to be fair, Presley. Presley, I want this to be fair.
MOLLY BLOOM: In the other corner, we've got actor, comedian, writer, and voiceover artist, Becky Abrams, ready to fight for Team Mayo.
BECKY ABRAMS: Mother, may I? More like Mother Mayo.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all, we've got Presley from Boston, Massachusetts. He's a talented violinist, the owner of two adorable rabbits named Dexter and Angelica, and believes a food can be condensed into three categories; soups, salads, and sandwiches. Wow. Controversial.
Presley, how are you doing today?
PRESLEY: I'm doing pretty good. Thank you for asking. How are you?
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm doing really well. I have a question for you. Which category of food do you like best of the three? Soups, salads, or sandwiches?
PRESLEY: I have to go with salads.
ALL: Hm.
PRESLEY: Sorry. I have to go with salads.
MOLLY BLOOM: Can I ask about this belief of the three categories?
PRESLEY: Mhm. Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Let's say something like a plate of spaghetti and meatballs. What is that?
PRESLEY: A plate of spaghetti and meatballs? Well, it's a salad. Because think about it, a salad, you have your lettuce and whatnot, and you have your dressing. Just translate that with spaghetti in your pasta sauce.
MOLLY BLOOM: I see. So like a soup is then something, like, liquidy?
PRESLEY: Yeah. A soup is something very liquidy. So cereal is a soup.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm. OK. And then salads are something with a dressing, basically?
PRESLEY: Salads are more so anything where there's just a bunch of stuff piled together.
JOY DOLO: Ah, it's a mixture. Yes.
PRESLEY: Mhm.
JOY DOLO: Mhm.
BECKY ABRAMS: What about a bread bowl?
PRESLEY: A bread bowl.
JOY DOLO: Ooh.
BECKY ABRAMS: Whoa.
JOY DOLO: The shape. I mean--
BECKY ABRAMS: Yes.
JOY DOLO: --the shape alone.
BECKY ABRAMS: Gotcha.
PRESLEY: OK. A bread bowl is one of the magical--
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
PRESLEY: --foods out there. And it falls into more than one category.
BECKY ABRAMS: Ah!
PRESLEY: So a bread bowl by itself, arguably a sandwich, just with stuff in it. Sandwich. But once you put in the soup in there, it's all three.
JOY DOLO: Whoa.
BECKY ABRAMS: Whoa.
PRESLEY: Three!
MOLLY BLOOM: I am very excited for today's debate. I know you're going to be a very fair judge today. Will Joy's argument cut the mustard? Or will Becky earn first place with a taste of mayo? It's up to Presley to decide.
Presley, are you ready to judge this thing?
PRESLEY: I'm very ready to judge this.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Well, before we get into this debate, it's time to review the rules of the game.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Round one is the Declaration of Greatness, where our debaters present fact-filled arguments in favor of their side. And they each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponents statements. Then we've got the Micro Round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance.
Round 3 is the Sneak Attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Our judge, Presley, will award two points in the first round, one for his favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration he liked best. Then he'll award one point in each round after that, but he'll keep his decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won.
OK. Becky, Joy, and Presley, are you ready?
BECKY ABRAMS: Ready as I'll ever be.
JOY DOLO: I'm ready for this. Yellow, fellow, mellow, Jell-O, hello--
[LAUGHTER]
--cello. OK. Let's go. Let's go.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the--
ANNOUNCER: Declaration of Greatness.
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
MOLLY BLOOM: We flipped a coin. And Joy, you're up first. Tell us why yellow mustard deserves the gold.
JOY DOLO: I do not like mayonnaise. I don't care how delicious some people think a sandwich is with it. If it has mayo on it, it is dead to me. But I love mustard. And I'm not the only one.
Mustard is a part of our cuisine and our culture. I mean, it even pops up in phrases like, that won't cut the mustard, which means that isn't good enough. I'm looking at you, mayo. It's also old-timey baseball slang for a fast, zingy pitch.
ANNOUNCER: And star player Jimmy Nichols steps onto the pitcher's mound.
MAN: Come on, Jimmy, give them the fastball. Boy, you put some mustard on it.
[WHOOSH]
[THUD]
[CHEERING]
REFEREE: Strike!
JOY DOLO: So basically, mustard means top-notch and fast. What's mayo working with? Let's just say, if someone says, dang, dude, those dance moves are pure mayonnaise, that's not a compliment.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Mustard is made from the tiny seeds of the mustard plant. The seeds can be left whole, crushed, or powdered, and then they're mixed with tangy vinegar wine or lemon juice. Mustard has a multitude of forms, from the spicy deli smear that punches up your pastrami to the sweet, hot, honey dip for your pretzels. Yum.
And it's also shelf stable, making it a safe bet for a picnic in the park. What's that on your plate? Mayonnaisey potato salad that sat in the sun until it was soupy and warm? No, thank you. I will not be hopping that express bus to buff city.
People have loved mustard's spicy taste for centuries. Ancient Sumerian and Indian people used mustard seeds as a spice more than 5,000 years ago, long before mayonnaise was even a bland, little twinkle in a sandwich artist's eye. And 600 years ago, King Louis 11th of France even refused to travel without mustard. Sounds a lot like me.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
KING: Ah, the royal tum-tum requires a snack. Fetch me a plate of bread and meat. And don't you dare forget my mustard.
BUTLER: Never fear, sire. I carry the royal mustard pot on my person at all times.
KING: [GRUNTS] But I don't see it. Well, you-- you know what? I don't want to know. My snack, at once.
JOY DOLO: My favorite condiment is also the preferred spread of hip-hop artists. In the 1980s, an ad for the Grey Poupon brand of mustard made that tasty stuff the emblem of luxury and style.
ANNOUNCER: Grey Poupon, one of life's finer pleasures.
JOY DOLO: And just like that, mustard got folded into hip-hop music celebration of going from rags to riches and enjoying the finer things in life. Rappers rhymed Grey Poupon with neutron, crouton, futon. I like to rhyme mayo with--
(SINGING) Way-o overrated.
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
Hey, producer. Give me a beat.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(RAPPING) Mustard is the boss, the tastiest sauce. The condiment champion, its never lost. Spread it. Eat it. Chill it. Heat it. Give me the mustard. Tell me mayo to beat it. Ho!
[CHEERING]
Yes! She's so good at rapping!
[APPLAUSE]
But why stop there? I want to see mustard spread thickly all over the music scene. Country mustard, disco mustard, techno mustard. [GASPS] Opera mustard?
TENOR: (SINGING) Te amo mi Regina. Picante! [VOCALIZING]
JOY DOLO: (SINGING) Mustard.
Let's hear it for that golden goodness. From mild to wild, it must be mustard for me.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow.
BECKY ABRAMS: Wow.
MOLLY BLOOM: Joy is showcasing some range from an aria to dropping some really excellent rap. So Presley, what stood out to you about Joy's declaration of greatness?
PRESLEY: Hm. I feel like what truly stood out was the cultural significance of mustard.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm.
PRESLEY: Something that I never considered beforehand. The music scene with mustard, absolutely astonishing. The American cultural significance? Hm. Something unique.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's making us think. All right. Becky, it is time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to tell us why you think meals mustn't make mustard mandatory. And your time starts now.
[CLOCK TICKING]
BECKY ABRAMS: OK. I have done this research. And only one in five people have this weird mayonnaise aversion, which means four out of five people love this stuff. Now, congratulations. Your best friend is a hot dog. That means you're BFF was a wiener. [VOCALIZING]
[CLOCK TICKING]
[LAUGHTER]
If you love things that are yellow and taste sharp, why don't you just eat a number two pencil, OK?
[LAUGHTER]
And speaking of number two, Grey Poupon. That's seriously the name that they chose out of many names. Nobody at HQ put a flag--
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
JOY DOLO: --on that.
MOLLY BLOOM: --time.
BECKY ABRAMS: There you have it.
[LAUGHTER]
JOY DOLO: You know, I'm just humbly here in the presence of Presley, asking him to think not only about the cultural significance of what mustard has done for society and the music scene, shall I say? But Becky said that one out of five people have this aversion to mayonnaise. And I just want you to know, sometimes the underdog deserves to have its day.
PRESLEY: Hm.
BECKY ABRAMS: I'm sensing that Joy knows that you catch more flies with honey mustard.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
BECKY ABRAMS: OK?
JOY DOLO: Oh. Poupon, Becky. Poupon.
[LAUGHTER]
BECKY ABRAMS: Now, that's what I call a Pou-plate special.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Becky. Tell us why you think mayo has the zots to top any sandwich.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
REPORTER: This just in. A wave of boredom and dryness is spreading unchecked through food communities across the US. We've got a French fry on the line from Bronx, New York to tell us more.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[CROWD CHATTER]
FRENCH FRY: Please help us. We're desperate to dip, but we can't take any more ketchup.
[BOTTLE SQUEEZING]
TUNA: What about me? I'm a can of tuna in water. You're seriously going to put me in your sandwich alone? Anarchy!
[GLASS BREAKING]
SALMON ROLL: They call me spicy salmon roll. But am I spicy? No! Why? Because I have nothing to make the spicy stick to me! I need some kind of delicious glue.
[GASPING] I'm a false advertiser. [GASPING] A fishy-- a fraud!
[WATER SPLASHING]
REPORTER: It's chaos out there, folks. These helpless foods are in a condiment crisis. But hold on. What's that white streak in the sky?
[CROWD CHATTER]
Is it a comet?
CROWD: No.
REPORTER: A plane's contrails?
CROWD: No.
REPORTER: No. It's-- it's Captain Mayo!
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
[CHEERING]
And she's here to save lunchtime.
CAPT. MAYO: Have no fear, Captain Mayo is here!
SPEAKER 1: A-mayonnaising!
SPEAKER 2: Our hero!
SPEAKER 3: Sushi-tastic!
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
BECKY ABRAMS: Mayo, short for mayonnaise, is a simple dip that happens to be the most popular condiment sold in America.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[CHA-CHING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Mayo's made by whipping three basic ingredients together; eggs, oil, and either lemon or vinegar. This creates a magical mixture called an emulsion.
[SPARKLY SOUND]
An emulsion combines two liquids that aren't usually fixable, like oil and vinegar. Mayo's secret is the egg, which helps bind those two together into a creamy miracle. This trick lets mayo blend together with other unlikely ingredients too, which is why it's a great base for sauces.
But who came up with this cool condiment? Well, its history is a bit of a mystery. That rhymed.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Some say a French general seized the Port of Mahón from the British in the 1700s and celebrated with a feast that featured a fabulous new sauce called mahonnaise. Others think it comes from the old French word for egg yolk, moyeu, moyeunnaise. And then there's the theory that the sauce got its start in Bayonne, so it was originally called bayonnaise.
Seems like everyone wants to claim the magical sauce. Whatever the case may be, everyone was looking for a little [FRENCH] or something special to liven up their food. And mayo was the answer.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Mayo is incredibly versatile. It works on its own as a tangy spread. But when you add ingredients to it, it's a vessel to flavor town. From garlic aioli to joppiesaus, which is a curry dip from the Netherlands, yum, mayo helps flavors from across the globe evolve into the condiments they've always dreamed of becoming. Add a dash of something extra, and you've gone from simply creamy to complex and dreamy.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Joy, have a slice of this chocolate cake that I made. Isn't it moist?
JOY DOLO: Uh-huh?
BECKY ABRAMS: Deliciously yummy?
JOY DOLO: Yeah?
BECKY ABRAMS: A seriously scrumptious slice of cake, would you say?
JOY DOLO: Yes, Becky.
BECKY ABRAMS: Well, here's my secret ingredient.
[DRUM ROLL]
Mayonnaise!
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
As you just heard, mayo can be found in a surprising number of foods. Some chocolate cake recipes call for it. Remember, mayo is egg and oil, after all. And you can use it instead of butter to make grilled cheese. It appears in many casseroles, cheese balls, Mexican street corn, you name it.
Even if you don't like mayo on your sandwiches, you might like it without even knowing it. And think of mayo as the New York City of condiments. It's not for everyone. But the people who like it, love it.
So that's the story of Captain Mayo. The hero who's there when your foods need that special something.
[CRUNCH]
And boy, is it great on a BLT, which of course, stands for Becky Loves the Tang.
[LAUGHTER]
Whee!
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: A very tasty argument there. Presley, what stood out to you about Becky's declaration of greatness?
PRESLEY: Honestly, I think it's the scientific reason behind mayo. I never thought of mayo as a substance that brings two opposites together. And I find it to just be fascinating.
And also, mayo's unknown work in the world, the way that mayo is in almost everything that we eat but we don't know it? I think that's just really compelling and really moving.
MOLLY BLOOM: Unsung hero for sure. All right. Joy, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to put the nay in mayonnaise. And your time starts now!
[CLOCK TICKING]
JOY DOLO: OK. If mayo is New York, then mustard is Chicago. Each are very important, lovely cities. And each of them have their own flavor. And they have their own people that are proud of it.
To speak of science, mustard science is actually really interesting because based on the mustard, there's different kind of seed that you use and the different kind of water or liquid or acid base liquid you use. It changes the flavor of the mustard. So if you like science, check that out.
Also, mayo is boring. It has to have other flavors mixed with it because otherwise, it's just plain cream that spreads. Who spreads? People squirt nowadays. It's 2022.
MOLLY BLOOM: Eh?
JOY DOLO: Nothing--
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: [VOCALIZING]
JOY DOLO: And last but not the least, it may be--
MOLLY BLOOM: Time!
JOY DOLO: --the most top--
MOLLY BLOOM: Time!
JOY DOLO: --that was mine! I got whistled!
BECKY ABRAMS: Wow.
[LAUGHTER]
Which is it? Boring or disgusting? Make up your mind, Joy.
JOY DOLO: It can be both. It's a duality.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Presley, it is time to award some points. We want you to give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the raddest rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument.
Did one side when you over with their jokes? Or were you more focused on the facts? Both points could go to the same person, or each person could get a point. Award them, but please do not tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
PRESLEY: I have.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Becky and Joy, how are you two feeling so far?
JOY DOLO: Oh my gosh, my heart is pounding. I feel like I didn't breathe at all in that rebuttal.
BECKY ABRAMS: My hands were shaking earlier.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. It's time for a quick break. Snag some mayo or mustard for your favorite snack.
PRESLEY: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: You're watching State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TODD DOUGLAS: Hello there, debate heads. It's me your old pal, Todd Douglas, here with debate maven, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: (SINGING) Hello, Toddy. Well, hello, Toddy. It's so nice to have you here to talk debate.
Wow! I sure can carry a tune. But I sure can't stand logical fallacies.
TODD DOUGLAS: Right there with you Taylor. They make arguments weak. And the only thing weak around here is my ankles.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Today's fallacy is the red herring. That's when you change the topic mid-debate to something that's easier to argue about. Take a look.
[CAMERA SHUTTERING]
MAN: (SINGING) La, la-la, la-la, la-la, la-la.
WOMAN: Excuse me.
MAN: (SINGING) La, la, la, la, la, la.
WOMAN: Excuse me. Excuse--
MAN: La, la--
WOMAN: --me!
MAN: Oh, hello. Can I help you?
WOMAN: Why are you singing and dancing in the rain?
MAN: Oh, well, I'm in love!
WOMAN: Well, you should not be dancing in the rain.
MAN: Why not?
WOMAN: It's a sure fire way to catch a cold.
MAN: I'm sorry, but that's not true. There are many studies showing you can't catch a cold virus from being wet. You have to come in contact with the virus, not raindrops. Now, if you'll excuse me.
WOMAN: Well--
MAN: La, la--
WOMAN: --don't you think your time could be better spent volunteering at a food pantry instead of hoofing it up in the rain?
[BUZZER]
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Wow, wow, wow! If that neighbor wants a lovestruck gentleman to stop tap dancing, maybe she should just say so. Instead, she got caught red-handed with a red herring by changing her argument midstream.
TODD DOUGLAS: Instead of doing the red herring, do the Roger Rabbit. It's a dance move from the late '80s.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's all for today, debate heads. We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MAN: Best. Boom.
WOMAN: Smash. Smash.
MAN: Boom. Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
PRESLEY: And I'm your judge, Presley.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Check out this epic idea we got from Elsie in London, England.
ELSIE: My debate idea is swings versus slides.
PRESLEY: Ooh, a playground brawl.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Elsie at the end of this episode to see which side she thinks should win.
PRESLEY: And now it's back to today's debate, Mustard versus Mayo.
[DRUM BEATS]
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two. The--
[GAME SHOW TUNE]
ANNOUNCER: Mic-- Micro Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today's micro-round challenge is called Reality Smack Down. Becky and Joy, we asked you to come up with a reality TV show starring your side and to write a short trailer for the show.
Joy went first last time, so Becky, you're up. Give us a taste of Keeping Up with the Condiments.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: This week on Real Housewives of Hoagie County.
MAYO: Our annual Who's the Sauciest pageant was the event of the season. And it was only natural that I should come out on top.
[RECORD SCRATCHING]
MUSTARD: Hold up. Mayo won again?
RELISH: Oh, yes, Mustard. She's best condiment again. I mean, who is surprised? Mayo wins everything. I'd relish being her. [CHUCKLES] Get it?
MUSTARD: Yes, Relish. We get it.
[SWOOSH]
MAYO: It's not my fault that everyone loves me the most. I'm a dream come true! I mix well with everyone, and I won't apologize for it. Those other condiments are just jelly, except for actual Jelly. She's always been supportive of me.
[SWOOSH]
MUSTARD: I, Mustard, should have won. My husband is Grey Poupon himself. Mayo needs to be taken down a notch or two.
NACHO CHEESE: Hey! Did somebody say nacho?
MUSTARD: No, Nacho Cheese. I said notch or-- wait a minute. I just got an idea.
[SWOOSH]
MAYO: Thank you so much for having us all to your manor, Countess Ketchup.
COUNTESS KETCHUP: Yes, Mayo dear. You and I get along so well, don't we? We are true friends.
MUSTARD: Funny. That's not what Mayo here told me.
MAYO: Careful, Mustard. You'll catch more flies with honey.
RELISH: Ooh, looks like this lunch is about to get tangy.
COUNTESS KETCHUP: Oh, dear.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(SINGING) Food fight!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: Don't miss this week's Real Housewives of Hoagie County, airing at lunchtime, central.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, I'm here for the condiment drama.
JOY DOLO: Drama.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Joy. It is your turn. Tell us why mustard makes for must-see TV.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: This season, two heavy hitters, Mayo and Mustard, compete on Joy's Kitchen Island.
MUSTARD: I'm Mustard! Woot! Woot! Let's get this party mustarted!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MAYO: I'm Mayo. You know, Mayonnaise? I'm here for the prize money.
ANNOUNCER: These two colossal condiments will go bottle to bottle to see who will be crowned most delicious. This isn't a mayo-see, this is a must-see. Challenges like to spread or not to spread.
MUSTARD: Oh, I know. I'll add a little extra tang to that chicken.
MAYO: Come here, pizza. I can make you extra greasy. Is that a cheesecake? I'm going to smother you!
ANNOUNCER: And we're bringing back Blind Date Challenge, featuring last year's Kitchen Island winner and fan favorite, Turkey Sandwich.
MUSTARD: Hey there, Sandwich. How about I light a few candles and put on some smooth jazz to make things extra saucy?
SANDWICH: Oh, Mustard. You're the perfect complement to my lettuce and tomato.
MAYO: (SINGING) Yoohoo!
Sandwich, Mayo's in the house.
[SQUIRTING]
SANDWICH: Gross! I'm all soggy.
ANNOUNCER: And the sun scorcher Picnic Challenge will leave you breathless.
MUSTARD: I love all seasons. I have a vinegar base, so I can stay on the counter for years.
MAYO: Oh, no! I'm spoiling! I need a medic.
ANNOUNCER: Yowza. This bottle battle is a must-see. So what are you waiting for? Slather on the drama with Joy's Kitchen Island.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Who's going to win? Oh my gosh, I would watch that show. All right, Presley.
BECKY ABRAMS: That was a real smear campaign.
[LAUGHTER]
JOY DOLO: I got it quick. The pickle--
MOLLY BLOOM: Like a schmear--
JOY DOLO: Didn't I?
MOLLY BLOOM: --campaign. All right. Presley, what did you like about Becky and Joy's micro rounds?
PRESLEY: I'm not going to lie. I really like what's going on with Mayo. It was giving Real Housewives-- [LAUGHS]
JOY DOLO: Yes.
PRESLEY: It was very tangible. I am just always here for the drama.
MOLLY BLOOM: What did you think about Condiment Island?
PRESLEY: Condiment Island? Hm. It seemed like Mustard was being a bit cocky at times.
ALL: Hm. Mhm.
They were kind of all over everyone, thinking that they could be in just everyone's business. It seemed a bit invasive at times.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm.
PRESLEY: But--
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
PRESLEY: Mustard had his reasons.
JOY DOLO: I wonder if that's maybe, like, a little leftover from the Housewives because sometimes that drama really spreads, like a white paste.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Presley. It is time to award a point. Again, the criteria is up to you. Did one of these shows sound like you would tune in? Did one give you more information? Did one make you laugh?
Don't tell us who it's going to. Have you made your decision?
PRESLEY: I have made my decision.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the Super Stealthy--
MEN: Haha, hooah!
MOLLY BLOOM: --Sneak Attack. Your sneak attack is called Dancing with the Stars. In this challenge, we'd like Becky and Joy to come up with a short dance that best represents their condiment. Make the moves easy and memorable, and describe the dance to the audience as you do it because it's a podcast.
So Presley, it'll be your job to decide which side has the best dance moves. And it might help to kind of do them along as you listen. Becky went first last time. So joy, please show us Mustard's tangy tango. Take it away.
JOY DOLO: OK. So this is called the Mustard Must Slide. You know you know. Straight up St. Paul. So what I need you to do right now, Presley, is I want you to take your arms and put your hands into a fist. And I want you to bring it around town.
Do you know what I mean by bring it around town? Push your arms into a circle. Just make it like you're stirring a big soup. You got two spoons, and you're stirring the soup.
And this is going to represent the seeds that have been mixing together with the vinegar and oil base. And I want you to take your left foot, and I want you to stomp it at the same time. Can you do that at the same time?
Stomp, stomp, stomp.
PRESLEY: I can't.
JOY DOLO: Circle.
BOTH: Stomp, stomp, stomp, circle. Stomp, stomp, stomp, circle.
JOY DOLO: And that's the mixing of the seeds popping open into that acidic liquid right there. And then the last thing we're going to do, sir, is that you're stirring, stirring, stomping, stomping. Take that right shoulder, and just hit it once. Bah!
Stir it. Dah, dah. Bah! Stir it, stir it. Stop. Bah! Stir it, stir it. Stop. Bah!
And that bah represents the 5,000 years that people have been using mustard, which is like 4,000 more than mayo.
[LAUGHTER]
It's been around forever. It's not only just a shoulder move, it's a legacy. So finally, let me just say what it all is together. We're doing the hand circles, so we get the left foot going dah, dah, dah. Bah! Dah, dah, dah. Bah! Dah.
And you think-- you know, it doesn't just work for mustard. You can actually do this on TikTok for any other dance. Just so you know.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm.
PRESLEY: Wow. Very informative.
MOLLY BLOOM: Make that mustard dance--
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: --go viral.
JOY DOLO: Mustard is always bringing cultures together. And I think TikTok does that as well. [CLICKS TONGUE]
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] All right. Becky, you're up. Show us mayo's savory samba.
BECKY ABRAMS: Uh, come on, everybody. It's the Mayo Bop. Get ready, and let's give it up for all the ugly foods out there that just need their day in the sun.
[LAUGHTER]
I'm talking passion fruit. Stir it around like a passion fruit. [LAUGHING] I'm talking figs. Open that thing of Fig Newtons. You know what that feeling looks like before it gets processed? Kind of gross, but delicious.
[LAUGHTER]
And then swing a little eggplant around in your arms. That comes out to baba ganoush, which looks absolutely like trash.
[LAUGHTER]
But tastes so good.
[LAUGHTER]
This is the Mayo Bop, for the condiment that always winds up on top. This spread will never stop, the Mayo Bop. And it's not Macareyonnaise, but I thought I might try to get that in there.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Presley, Think about who had the best moves, and give that team your fourth point. Again, criteria, totally up to you.
Is one dance a little stickier? Does the other dance make you think? Don't tell us who it's going to, but it's time to award a point.
PRESLEY: [CHUCKLES] I have awarded my point.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. And it's time for our final around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: The final six.
MOLLY BLOOM: Becky, you've got just six words to show us why mayo schmears supreme.
BECKY ABRAMS: Emulsion City. Population, my favorite sauce.
[LAUGHTER]
That makes sense, if you think about it.
MOLLY BLOOM: I enjoyed it. All right. Joy, tell us why mustard is the condiment king?
JOY DOLO: Mayo is bustard. Trustard the mustard.
[LAUGHTER]
Thank you for laughing.
BECKY ABRAMS: You had that rhymed.
JOY DOLO: We had an agreement that we would all laugh at each other's jokes. And I just don't know if that's held up.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Presley, it is time to award a final point for this final six.
PRESLEY: I have awarded my point.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Now tally up the points you've awarded.
PRESLEY: Mhm.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
PRESLEY: I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Drum roll, please.
[DRUM ROLL]
And the winner is--
PRESLEY: Mustard.
JOY DOLO: [GASPS] [SCREAMING]
PRESLEY: The winner's mustard?
BECKY ABRAMS: I knew it. [SIGHS]
JOY DOLO: [LAUGHS]
BECKY ABRAMS: I knew it, but I'm here. I'm taking it. It was a fair game.
JOY DOLO: You know, mustard--
PRESLEY: It was fierce--
JOY DOLO: --has just been thrown on the side so much. And I'm just so happy that we've been recognized for our greatness. [FAKE SOBBING]
BECKY ABRAMS: [SIGHS]
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Presley, was there a moment that really pushed things over the edge there for mustard?
PRESLEY: It was a really tight competition. Honestly, mustard just sealed the deal with the six-word finishing line. And I think the dance too. The dance just--
JOY DOLO: Dah, dah, dah--
PRESLEY: --barely put--
JOY DOLO: --bah!
PRESLEY: --mustard over the edge.
MOLLY BLOOM: I'd be doing that dance on the train home.
JOY DOLO: Uh-huh.
BECKY ABRAMS: Wow.
PRESLEY: I won't--
JOY DOLO: Let's do it!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
JOY DOLO: Becky, I just want you to know that I still don't like mayo, but I understand.
PRESLEY: [LAUGHING]
JOY DOLO: I understand why someone would be interested in that sauce. And the way that you explained it in the history of it was very fascinating. And I really liked your schmear campaign joke.
BECKY ABRAMS: Well I've got to say, I'm a person who, much like 4/5 of the entire world, loves mayo. And I love it so much. Sometimes, I would make a sandwich just to eat mayo. You know what I mean?
PRESLEY: Ah.
BECKY ABRAMS: Sometimes love wins out over hate. But with that in mind, I will say mustard and mayo go really well together in the form of dijonnaise.
(SINGING) D, d, d, dijonnaise, naise. Don't you remember that?
JOY DOLO: Bah!
[LAUGHTER]
BECKY ABRAMS: And that's just--
JOY DOLO: That's because it's done in my dance. [LAUGHS]
BECKY ABRAMS: Yeah. And I would say, in the same vein, it was the musicality. Joy, that rap that you did in your DOG was Grammy worthy.
JOY DOLO: Oh.
BECKY ABRAMS: I am truly impressed. When I was listening to that, my jaw dropped. And I was, like, well, there goes the neighborhood.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that is it for today's debate battle. Presley, crowned mustard the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
PRESLEY: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios.
BECKY ABRAMS: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie Dupont, Ruby Guthrie, and Auram Wuldess Ollessy.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Josh Sauvageau and Adam Weiss.
JOY DOLO: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.
BECKY ABRAMS: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, Anna Weggel, and Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman. And the APM Studios executives-in-charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Shaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman.
Joy, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?
JOY DOLO: Two people. I'd like to thank Quinn Chadco for understanding and listening to me rant against mayo in preparation for this. And also my little sister Patience for hating all condiments equally.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: And how about you, Becky? Any special thanks today?
BECKY ABRAMS: Oh. I have a little handful. I'm shouting out Jojo and SD, Roux and Minnie, Lizzie, Cal, Lincoln, Cash, Izzy, Kelly, and everyone I babysit.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Aw.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Presley, do you want to give any special thanks?
PRESLEY: I think I'd like to shout-out my brother, Lindberg Simless. He's super cool. Yeah. Always supports me--
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really nice.
PRESLEY: --and would probably cheer me on. And also my AP Bio teacher, Miss Benson. She should be listening to this. And my debate coaches.
BECKY ABRAMS: Wow. AP Bio.
JOY DOLO: Sweet.
BECKY ABRAMS: Nice.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Before we go, let's check in with Elsie and see who she thinks would win her swings versus slides debate.
ELSIE: I think that swings would win because they make you feel like you're flying.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown, drag-out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
[THEME MUSIC]
Ta-ta!
JOY DOLO: Got, got--
BECKY ABRAMS: So long--
JOY DOLO: --got, got to go!
BECKY ABRAMS: --friends.
JOY DOLO: (RAPPING) Got, got, got, got, got to go!
(SINGING) Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Ooh, put you through the test. Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Ooh, better than the rest. It's Smash Boom Best. It's Smash Boom Best.
BECKY ABRAMS: Also, mustard more like bustard. This has been outrageous so far. [LAUGHS]
JOY DOLO: Oh, dijon you make that up on your own?
BECKY ABRAMS: Ooh!
MOLLY BLOOM: Aha.
[LAUGHTER]
PRESLEY: The show for people with big opinions.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi. I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. The kings of condiments go jar to jar in today's yummy rumble. Give it up for Mayo versus Mustard.
In one corner, we have comedian, actor, writer, and host of Forever Ago, Joy Dolo, defending mustard.
JOY DOLO: You know, I was listening to Celine Dijon--
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
JOY DOLO: --over and over and over again on repe-dijon. And I mustard admit, Celine is from France, which experienced a mustard shortage recently. People were Pouponing all over it. It was, uh--
BECKY ABRAMS: Oh my god!
[LAUGHTER]
JOY DOLO: But I don't want to jab mayo at all. I just want this to be fair, Presley. Presley, I want this to be fair.
MOLLY BLOOM: In the other corner, we've got actor, comedian, writer, and voiceover artist, Becky Abrams, ready to fight for Team Mayo.
BECKY ABRAMS: Mother, may I? More like Mother Mayo.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all, we've got Presley from Boston, Massachusetts. He's a talented violinist, the owner of two adorable rabbits named Dexter and Angelica, and believes a food can be condensed into three categories; soups, salads, and sandwiches. Wow. Controversial.
Presley, how are you doing today?
PRESLEY: I'm doing pretty good. Thank you for asking. How are you?
MOLLY BLOOM: I'm doing really well. I have a question for you. Which category of food do you like best of the three? Soups, salads, or sandwiches?
PRESLEY: I have to go with salads.
ALL: Hm.
PRESLEY: Sorry. I have to go with salads.
MOLLY BLOOM: Can I ask about this belief of the three categories?
PRESLEY: Mhm. Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Let's say something like a plate of spaghetti and meatballs. What is that?
PRESLEY: A plate of spaghetti and meatballs? Well, it's a salad. Because think about it, a salad, you have your lettuce and whatnot, and you have your dressing. Just translate that with spaghetti in your pasta sauce.
MOLLY BLOOM: I see. So like a soup is then something, like, liquidy?
PRESLEY: Yeah. A soup is something very liquidy. So cereal is a soup.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm. OK. And then salads are something with a dressing, basically?
PRESLEY: Salads are more so anything where there's just a bunch of stuff piled together.
JOY DOLO: Ah, it's a mixture. Yes.
PRESLEY: Mhm.
JOY DOLO: Mhm.
BECKY ABRAMS: What about a bread bowl?
PRESLEY: A bread bowl.
JOY DOLO: Ooh.
BECKY ABRAMS: Whoa.
JOY DOLO: The shape. I mean--
BECKY ABRAMS: Yes.
JOY DOLO: --the shape alone.
BECKY ABRAMS: Gotcha.
PRESLEY: OK. A bread bowl is one of the magical--
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
PRESLEY: --foods out there. And it falls into more than one category.
BECKY ABRAMS: Ah!
PRESLEY: So a bread bowl by itself, arguably a sandwich, just with stuff in it. Sandwich. But once you put in the soup in there, it's all three.
JOY DOLO: Whoa.
BECKY ABRAMS: Whoa.
PRESLEY: Three!
MOLLY BLOOM: I am very excited for today's debate. I know you're going to be a very fair judge today. Will Joy's argument cut the mustard? Or will Becky earn first place with a taste of mayo? It's up to Presley to decide.
Presley, are you ready to judge this thing?
PRESLEY: I'm very ready to judge this.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Well, before we get into this debate, it's time to review the rules of the game.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Round one is the Declaration of Greatness, where our debaters present fact-filled arguments in favor of their side. And they each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponents statements. Then we've got the Micro Round, where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance.
Round 3 is the Sneak Attack, where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot. And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six, where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Our judge, Presley, will award two points in the first round, one for his favorite rebuttal, the other for the declaration he liked best. Then he'll award one point in each round after that, but he'll keep his decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won.
OK. Becky, Joy, and Presley, are you ready?
BECKY ABRAMS: Ready as I'll ever be.
JOY DOLO: I'm ready for this. Yellow, fellow, mellow, Jell-O, hello--
[LAUGHTER]
--cello. OK. Let's go. Let's go.
MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the--
ANNOUNCER: Declaration of Greatness.
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
MOLLY BLOOM: We flipped a coin. And Joy, you're up first. Tell us why yellow mustard deserves the gold.
JOY DOLO: I do not like mayonnaise. I don't care how delicious some people think a sandwich is with it. If it has mayo on it, it is dead to me. But I love mustard. And I'm not the only one.
Mustard is a part of our cuisine and our culture. I mean, it even pops up in phrases like, that won't cut the mustard, which means that isn't good enough. I'm looking at you, mayo. It's also old-timey baseball slang for a fast, zingy pitch.
ANNOUNCER: And star player Jimmy Nichols steps onto the pitcher's mound.
MAN: Come on, Jimmy, give them the fastball. Boy, you put some mustard on it.
[WHOOSH]
[THUD]
[CHEERING]
REFEREE: Strike!
JOY DOLO: So basically, mustard means top-notch and fast. What's mayo working with? Let's just say, if someone says, dang, dude, those dance moves are pure mayonnaise, that's not a compliment.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Mustard is made from the tiny seeds of the mustard plant. The seeds can be left whole, crushed, or powdered, and then they're mixed with tangy vinegar wine or lemon juice. Mustard has a multitude of forms, from the spicy deli smear that punches up your pastrami to the sweet, hot, honey dip for your pretzels. Yum.
And it's also shelf stable, making it a safe bet for a picnic in the park. What's that on your plate? Mayonnaisey potato salad that sat in the sun until it was soupy and warm? No, thank you. I will not be hopping that express bus to buff city.
People have loved mustard's spicy taste for centuries. Ancient Sumerian and Indian people used mustard seeds as a spice more than 5,000 years ago, long before mayonnaise was even a bland, little twinkle in a sandwich artist's eye. And 600 years ago, King Louis 11th of France even refused to travel without mustard. Sounds a lot like me.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
KING: Ah, the royal tum-tum requires a snack. Fetch me a plate of bread and meat. And don't you dare forget my mustard.
BUTLER: Never fear, sire. I carry the royal mustard pot on my person at all times.
KING: [GRUNTS] But I don't see it. Well, you-- you know what? I don't want to know. My snack, at once.
JOY DOLO: My favorite condiment is also the preferred spread of hip-hop artists. In the 1980s, an ad for the Grey Poupon brand of mustard made that tasty stuff the emblem of luxury and style.
ANNOUNCER: Grey Poupon, one of life's finer pleasures.
JOY DOLO: And just like that, mustard got folded into hip-hop music celebration of going from rags to riches and enjoying the finer things in life. Rappers rhymed Grey Poupon with neutron, crouton, futon. I like to rhyme mayo with--
(SINGING) Way-o overrated.
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
Hey, producer. Give me a beat.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(RAPPING) Mustard is the boss, the tastiest sauce. The condiment champion, its never lost. Spread it. Eat it. Chill it. Heat it. Give me the mustard. Tell me mayo to beat it. Ho!
[CHEERING]
Yes! She's so good at rapping!
[APPLAUSE]
But why stop there? I want to see mustard spread thickly all over the music scene. Country mustard, disco mustard, techno mustard. [GASPS] Opera mustard?
TENOR: (SINGING) Te amo mi Regina. Picante! [VOCALIZING]
JOY DOLO: (SINGING) Mustard.
Let's hear it for that golden goodness. From mild to wild, it must be mustard for me.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow.
BECKY ABRAMS: Wow.
MOLLY BLOOM: Joy is showcasing some range from an aria to dropping some really excellent rap. So Presley, what stood out to you about Joy's declaration of greatness?
PRESLEY: Hm. I feel like what truly stood out was the cultural significance of mustard.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm.
PRESLEY: Something that I never considered beforehand. The music scene with mustard, absolutely astonishing. The American cultural significance? Hm. Something unique.
MOLLY BLOOM: It's making us think. All right. Becky, it is time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to tell us why you think meals mustn't make mustard mandatory. And your time starts now.
[CLOCK TICKING]
BECKY ABRAMS: OK. I have done this research. And only one in five people have this weird mayonnaise aversion, which means four out of five people love this stuff. Now, congratulations. Your best friend is a hot dog. That means you're BFF was a wiener. [VOCALIZING]
[CLOCK TICKING]
[LAUGHTER]
If you love things that are yellow and taste sharp, why don't you just eat a number two pencil, OK?
[LAUGHTER]
And speaking of number two, Grey Poupon. That's seriously the name that they chose out of many names. Nobody at HQ put a flag--
MOLLY BLOOM: And--
JOY DOLO: --on that.
MOLLY BLOOM: --time.
BECKY ABRAMS: There you have it.
[LAUGHTER]
JOY DOLO: You know, I'm just humbly here in the presence of Presley, asking him to think not only about the cultural significance of what mustard has done for society and the music scene, shall I say? But Becky said that one out of five people have this aversion to mayonnaise. And I just want you to know, sometimes the underdog deserves to have its day.
PRESLEY: Hm.
BECKY ABRAMS: I'm sensing that Joy knows that you catch more flies with honey mustard.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.
BECKY ABRAMS: OK?
JOY DOLO: Oh. Poupon, Becky. Poupon.
[LAUGHTER]
BECKY ABRAMS: Now, that's what I call a Pou-plate special.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Becky. Tell us why you think mayo has the zots to top any sandwich.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
REPORTER: This just in. A wave of boredom and dryness is spreading unchecked through food communities across the US. We've got a French fry on the line from Bronx, New York to tell us more.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[CROWD CHATTER]
FRENCH FRY: Please help us. We're desperate to dip, but we can't take any more ketchup.
[BOTTLE SQUEEZING]
TUNA: What about me? I'm a can of tuna in water. You're seriously going to put me in your sandwich alone? Anarchy!
[GLASS BREAKING]
SALMON ROLL: They call me spicy salmon roll. But am I spicy? No! Why? Because I have nothing to make the spicy stick to me! I need some kind of delicious glue.
[GASPING] I'm a false advertiser. [GASPING] A fishy-- a fraud!
[WATER SPLASHING]
REPORTER: It's chaos out there, folks. These helpless foods are in a condiment crisis. But hold on. What's that white streak in the sky?
[CROWD CHATTER]
Is it a comet?
CROWD: No.
REPORTER: A plane's contrails?
CROWD: No.
REPORTER: No. It's-- it's Captain Mayo!
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
[CHEERING]
And she's here to save lunchtime.
CAPT. MAYO: Have no fear, Captain Mayo is here!
SPEAKER 1: A-mayonnaising!
SPEAKER 2: Our hero!
SPEAKER 3: Sushi-tastic!
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
BECKY ABRAMS: Mayo, short for mayonnaise, is a simple dip that happens to be the most popular condiment sold in America.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[CHA-CHING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Mayo's made by whipping three basic ingredients together; eggs, oil, and either lemon or vinegar. This creates a magical mixture called an emulsion.
[SPARKLY SOUND]
An emulsion combines two liquids that aren't usually fixable, like oil and vinegar. Mayo's secret is the egg, which helps bind those two together into a creamy miracle. This trick lets mayo blend together with other unlikely ingredients too, which is why it's a great base for sauces.
But who came up with this cool condiment? Well, its history is a bit of a mystery. That rhymed.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Some say a French general seized the Port of Mahón from the British in the 1700s and celebrated with a feast that featured a fabulous new sauce called mahonnaise. Others think it comes from the old French word for egg yolk, moyeu, moyeunnaise. And then there's the theory that the sauce got its start in Bayonne, so it was originally called bayonnaise.
Seems like everyone wants to claim the magical sauce. Whatever the case may be, everyone was looking for a little [FRENCH] or something special to liven up their food. And mayo was the answer.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Mayo is incredibly versatile. It works on its own as a tangy spread. But when you add ingredients to it, it's a vessel to flavor town. From garlic aioli to joppiesaus, which is a curry dip from the Netherlands, yum, mayo helps flavors from across the globe evolve into the condiments they've always dreamed of becoming. Add a dash of something extra, and you've gone from simply creamy to complex and dreamy.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Joy, have a slice of this chocolate cake that I made. Isn't it moist?
JOY DOLO: Uh-huh?
BECKY ABRAMS: Deliciously yummy?
JOY DOLO: Yeah?
BECKY ABRAMS: A seriously scrumptious slice of cake, would you say?
JOY DOLO: Yes, Becky.
BECKY ABRAMS: Well, here's my secret ingredient.
[DRUM ROLL]
Mayonnaise!
[TRUMPET FANFARE]
As you just heard, mayo can be found in a surprising number of foods. Some chocolate cake recipes call for it. Remember, mayo is egg and oil, after all. And you can use it instead of butter to make grilled cheese. It appears in many casseroles, cheese balls, Mexican street corn, you name it.
Even if you don't like mayo on your sandwiches, you might like it without even knowing it. And think of mayo as the New York City of condiments. It's not for everyone. But the people who like it, love it.
So that's the story of Captain Mayo. The hero who's there when your foods need that special something.
[CRUNCH]
And boy, is it great on a BLT, which of course, stands for Becky Loves the Tang.
[LAUGHTER]
Whee!
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: A very tasty argument there. Presley, what stood out to you about Becky's declaration of greatness?
PRESLEY: Honestly, I think it's the scientific reason behind mayo. I never thought of mayo as a substance that brings two opposites together. And I find it to just be fascinating.
And also, mayo's unknown work in the world, the way that mayo is in almost everything that we eat but we don't know it? I think that's just really compelling and really moving.
MOLLY BLOOM: Unsung hero for sure. All right. Joy, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to put the nay in mayonnaise. And your time starts now!
[CLOCK TICKING]
JOY DOLO: OK. If mayo is New York, then mustard is Chicago. Each are very important, lovely cities. And each of them have their own flavor. And they have their own people that are proud of it.
To speak of science, mustard science is actually really interesting because based on the mustard, there's different kind of seed that you use and the different kind of water or liquid or acid base liquid you use. It changes the flavor of the mustard. So if you like science, check that out.
Also, mayo is boring. It has to have other flavors mixed with it because otherwise, it's just plain cream that spreads. Who spreads? People squirt nowadays. It's 2022.
MOLLY BLOOM: Eh?
JOY DOLO: Nothing--
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: [VOCALIZING]
JOY DOLO: And last but not the least, it may be--
MOLLY BLOOM: Time!
JOY DOLO: --the most top--
MOLLY BLOOM: Time!
JOY DOLO: --that was mine! I got whistled!
BECKY ABRAMS: Wow.
[LAUGHTER]
Which is it? Boring or disgusting? Make up your mind, Joy.
JOY DOLO: It can be both. It's a duality.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Presley, it is time to award some points. We want you to give one point to the declaration of greatness that you liked best and one point to the raddest rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument.
Did one side when you over with their jokes? Or were you more focused on the facts? Both points could go to the same person, or each person could get a point. Award them, but please do not tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
PRESLEY: I have.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Becky and Joy, how are you two feeling so far?
JOY DOLO: Oh my gosh, my heart is pounding. I feel like I didn't breathe at all in that rebuttal.
BECKY ABRAMS: My hands were shaking earlier.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. It's time for a quick break. Snag some mayo or mustard for your favorite snack.
PRESLEY: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: You're watching State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
TODD DOUGLAS: Hello there, debate heads. It's me your old pal, Todd Douglas, here with debate maven, Taylor Lincoln.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: (SINGING) Hello, Toddy. Well, hello, Toddy. It's so nice to have you here to talk debate.
Wow! I sure can carry a tune. But I sure can't stand logical fallacies.
TODD DOUGLAS: Right there with you Taylor. They make arguments weak. And the only thing weak around here is my ankles.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Today's fallacy is the red herring. That's when you change the topic mid-debate to something that's easier to argue about. Take a look.
[CAMERA SHUTTERING]
MAN: (SINGING) La, la-la, la-la, la-la, la-la.
WOMAN: Excuse me.
MAN: (SINGING) La, la, la, la, la, la.
WOMAN: Excuse me. Excuse--
MAN: La, la--
WOMAN: --me!
MAN: Oh, hello. Can I help you?
WOMAN: Why are you singing and dancing in the rain?
MAN: Oh, well, I'm in love!
WOMAN: Well, you should not be dancing in the rain.
MAN: Why not?
WOMAN: It's a sure fire way to catch a cold.
MAN: I'm sorry, but that's not true. There are many studies showing you can't catch a cold virus from being wet. You have to come in contact with the virus, not raindrops. Now, if you'll excuse me.
WOMAN: Well--
MAN: La, la--
WOMAN: --don't you think your time could be better spent volunteering at a food pantry instead of hoofing it up in the rain?
[BUZZER]
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Wow, wow, wow! If that neighbor wants a lovestruck gentleman to stop tap dancing, maybe she should just say so. Instead, she got caught red-handed with a red herring by changing her argument midstream.
TODD DOUGLAS: Instead of doing the red herring, do the Roger Rabbit. It's a dance move from the late '80s.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: That's all for today, debate heads. We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MAN: Best. Boom.
WOMAN: Smash. Smash.
MAN: Boom. Best.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
PRESLEY: And I'm your judge, Presley.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Check out this epic idea we got from Elsie in London, England.
ELSIE: My debate idea is swings versus slides.
PRESLEY: Ooh, a playground brawl.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Elsie at the end of this episode to see which side she thinks should win.
PRESLEY: And now it's back to today's debate, Mustard versus Mayo.
[DRUM BEATS]
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two. The--
[GAME SHOW TUNE]
ANNOUNCER: Mic-- Micro Round.
MOLLY BLOOM: Today's micro-round challenge is called Reality Smack Down. Becky and Joy, we asked you to come up with a reality TV show starring your side and to write a short trailer for the show.
Joy went first last time, so Becky, you're up. Give us a taste of Keeping Up with the Condiments.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: This week on Real Housewives of Hoagie County.
MAYO: Our annual Who's the Sauciest pageant was the event of the season. And it was only natural that I should come out on top.
[RECORD SCRATCHING]
MUSTARD: Hold up. Mayo won again?
RELISH: Oh, yes, Mustard. She's best condiment again. I mean, who is surprised? Mayo wins everything. I'd relish being her. [CHUCKLES] Get it?
MUSTARD: Yes, Relish. We get it.
[SWOOSH]
MAYO: It's not my fault that everyone loves me the most. I'm a dream come true! I mix well with everyone, and I won't apologize for it. Those other condiments are just jelly, except for actual Jelly. She's always been supportive of me.
[SWOOSH]
MUSTARD: I, Mustard, should have won. My husband is Grey Poupon himself. Mayo needs to be taken down a notch or two.
NACHO CHEESE: Hey! Did somebody say nacho?
MUSTARD: No, Nacho Cheese. I said notch or-- wait a minute. I just got an idea.
[SWOOSH]
MAYO: Thank you so much for having us all to your manor, Countess Ketchup.
COUNTESS KETCHUP: Yes, Mayo dear. You and I get along so well, don't we? We are true friends.
MUSTARD: Funny. That's not what Mayo here told me.
MAYO: Careful, Mustard. You'll catch more flies with honey.
RELISH: Ooh, looks like this lunch is about to get tangy.
COUNTESS KETCHUP: Oh, dear.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
(SINGING) Food fight!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: Don't miss this week's Real Housewives of Hoagie County, airing at lunchtime, central.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, I'm here for the condiment drama.
JOY DOLO: Drama.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Joy. It is your turn. Tell us why mustard makes for must-see TV.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: This season, two heavy hitters, Mayo and Mustard, compete on Joy's Kitchen Island.
MUSTARD: I'm Mustard! Woot! Woot! Let's get this party mustarted!
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MAYO: I'm Mayo. You know, Mayonnaise? I'm here for the prize money.
ANNOUNCER: These two colossal condiments will go bottle to bottle to see who will be crowned most delicious. This isn't a mayo-see, this is a must-see. Challenges like to spread or not to spread.
MUSTARD: Oh, I know. I'll add a little extra tang to that chicken.
MAYO: Come here, pizza. I can make you extra greasy. Is that a cheesecake? I'm going to smother you!
ANNOUNCER: And we're bringing back Blind Date Challenge, featuring last year's Kitchen Island winner and fan favorite, Turkey Sandwich.
MUSTARD: Hey there, Sandwich. How about I light a few candles and put on some smooth jazz to make things extra saucy?
SANDWICH: Oh, Mustard. You're the perfect complement to my lettuce and tomato.
MAYO: (SINGING) Yoohoo!
Sandwich, Mayo's in the house.
[SQUIRTING]
SANDWICH: Gross! I'm all soggy.
ANNOUNCER: And the sun scorcher Picnic Challenge will leave you breathless.
MUSTARD: I love all seasons. I have a vinegar base, so I can stay on the counter for years.
MAYO: Oh, no! I'm spoiling! I need a medic.
ANNOUNCER: Yowza. This bottle battle is a must-see. So what are you waiting for? Slather on the drama with Joy's Kitchen Island.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Who's going to win? Oh my gosh, I would watch that show. All right, Presley.
BECKY ABRAMS: That was a real smear campaign.
[LAUGHTER]
JOY DOLO: I got it quick. The pickle--
MOLLY BLOOM: Like a schmear--
JOY DOLO: Didn't I?
MOLLY BLOOM: --campaign. All right. Presley, what did you like about Becky and Joy's micro rounds?
PRESLEY: I'm not going to lie. I really like what's going on with Mayo. It was giving Real Housewives-- [LAUGHS]
JOY DOLO: Yes.
PRESLEY: It was very tangible. I am just always here for the drama.
MOLLY BLOOM: What did you think about Condiment Island?
PRESLEY: Condiment Island? Hm. It seemed like Mustard was being a bit cocky at times.
ALL: Hm. Mhm.
They were kind of all over everyone, thinking that they could be in just everyone's business. It seemed a bit invasive at times.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm.
PRESLEY: But--
MOLLY BLOOM: OK.
PRESLEY: Mustard had his reasons.
JOY DOLO: I wonder if that's maybe, like, a little leftover from the Housewives because sometimes that drama really spreads, like a white paste.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Presley. It is time to award a point. Again, the criteria is up to you. Did one of these shows sound like you would tune in? Did one give you more information? Did one make you laugh?
Don't tell us who it's going to. Have you made your decision?
PRESLEY: I have made my decision.
[BELL RINGS]
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the Super Stealthy--
MEN: Haha, hooah!
MOLLY BLOOM: --Sneak Attack. Your sneak attack is called Dancing with the Stars. In this challenge, we'd like Becky and Joy to come up with a short dance that best represents their condiment. Make the moves easy and memorable, and describe the dance to the audience as you do it because it's a podcast.
So Presley, it'll be your job to decide which side has the best dance moves. And it might help to kind of do them along as you listen. Becky went first last time. So joy, please show us Mustard's tangy tango. Take it away.
JOY DOLO: OK. So this is called the Mustard Must Slide. You know you know. Straight up St. Paul. So what I need you to do right now, Presley, is I want you to take your arms and put your hands into a fist. And I want you to bring it around town.
Do you know what I mean by bring it around town? Push your arms into a circle. Just make it like you're stirring a big soup. You got two spoons, and you're stirring the soup.
And this is going to represent the seeds that have been mixing together with the vinegar and oil base. And I want you to take your left foot, and I want you to stomp it at the same time. Can you do that at the same time?
Stomp, stomp, stomp.
PRESLEY: I can't.
JOY DOLO: Circle.
BOTH: Stomp, stomp, stomp, circle. Stomp, stomp, stomp, circle.
JOY DOLO: And that's the mixing of the seeds popping open into that acidic liquid right there. And then the last thing we're going to do, sir, is that you're stirring, stirring, stomping, stomping. Take that right shoulder, and just hit it once. Bah!
Stir it. Dah, dah. Bah! Stir it, stir it. Stop. Bah! Stir it, stir it. Stop. Bah!
And that bah represents the 5,000 years that people have been using mustard, which is like 4,000 more than mayo.
[LAUGHTER]
It's been around forever. It's not only just a shoulder move, it's a legacy. So finally, let me just say what it all is together. We're doing the hand circles, so we get the left foot going dah, dah, dah. Bah! Dah, dah, dah. Bah! Dah.
And you think-- you know, it doesn't just work for mustard. You can actually do this on TikTok for any other dance. Just so you know.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hm.
PRESLEY: Wow. Very informative.
MOLLY BLOOM: Make that mustard dance--
JOY DOLO: Yeah.
MOLLY BLOOM: --go viral.
JOY DOLO: Mustard is always bringing cultures together. And I think TikTok does that as well. [CLICKS TONGUE]
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING] All right. Becky, you're up. Show us mayo's savory samba.
BECKY ABRAMS: Uh, come on, everybody. It's the Mayo Bop. Get ready, and let's give it up for all the ugly foods out there that just need their day in the sun.
[LAUGHTER]
I'm talking passion fruit. Stir it around like a passion fruit. [LAUGHING] I'm talking figs. Open that thing of Fig Newtons. You know what that feeling looks like before it gets processed? Kind of gross, but delicious.
[LAUGHTER]
And then swing a little eggplant around in your arms. That comes out to baba ganoush, which looks absolutely like trash.
[LAUGHTER]
But tastes so good.
[LAUGHTER]
This is the Mayo Bop, for the condiment that always winds up on top. This spread will never stop, the Mayo Bop. And it's not Macareyonnaise, but I thought I might try to get that in there.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Presley, Think about who had the best moves, and give that team your fourth point. Again, criteria, totally up to you.
Is one dance a little stickier? Does the other dance make you think? Don't tell us who it's going to, but it's time to award a point.
PRESLEY: [CHUCKLES] I have awarded my point.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. And it's time for our final around.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
ANNOUNCER: The final six.
MOLLY BLOOM: Becky, you've got just six words to show us why mayo schmears supreme.
BECKY ABRAMS: Emulsion City. Population, my favorite sauce.
[LAUGHTER]
That makes sense, if you think about it.
MOLLY BLOOM: I enjoyed it. All right. Joy, tell us why mustard is the condiment king?
JOY DOLO: Mayo is bustard. Trustard the mustard.
[LAUGHTER]
Thank you for laughing.
BECKY ABRAMS: You had that rhymed.
JOY DOLO: We had an agreement that we would all laugh at each other's jokes. And I just don't know if that's held up.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Presley, it is time to award a final point for this final six.
PRESLEY: I have awarded my point.
[BELL RINGING]
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Now tally up the points you've awarded.
PRESLEY: Mhm.
MOLLY BLOOM: Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?
PRESLEY: I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Drum roll, please.
[DRUM ROLL]
And the winner is--
PRESLEY: Mustard.
JOY DOLO: [GASPS] [SCREAMING]
PRESLEY: The winner's mustard?
BECKY ABRAMS: I knew it. [SIGHS]
JOY DOLO: [LAUGHS]
BECKY ABRAMS: I knew it, but I'm here. I'm taking it. It was a fair game.
JOY DOLO: You know, mustard--
PRESLEY: It was fierce--
JOY DOLO: --has just been thrown on the side so much. And I'm just so happy that we've been recognized for our greatness. [FAKE SOBBING]
BECKY ABRAMS: [SIGHS]
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Presley, was there a moment that really pushed things over the edge there for mustard?
PRESLEY: It was a really tight competition. Honestly, mustard just sealed the deal with the six-word finishing line. And I think the dance too. The dance just--
JOY DOLO: Dah, dah, dah--
PRESLEY: --barely put--
JOY DOLO: --bah!
PRESLEY: --mustard over the edge.
MOLLY BLOOM: I'd be doing that dance on the train home.
JOY DOLO: Uh-huh.
BECKY ABRAMS: Wow.
PRESLEY: I won't--
JOY DOLO: Let's do it!
MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHING]
JOY DOLO: Becky, I just want you to know that I still don't like mayo, but I understand.
PRESLEY: [LAUGHING]
JOY DOLO: I understand why someone would be interested in that sauce. And the way that you explained it in the history of it was very fascinating. And I really liked your schmear campaign joke.
BECKY ABRAMS: Well I've got to say, I'm a person who, much like 4/5 of the entire world, loves mayo. And I love it so much. Sometimes, I would make a sandwich just to eat mayo. You know what I mean?
PRESLEY: Ah.
BECKY ABRAMS: Sometimes love wins out over hate. But with that in mind, I will say mustard and mayo go really well together in the form of dijonnaise.
(SINGING) D, d, d, dijonnaise, naise. Don't you remember that?
JOY DOLO: Bah!
[LAUGHTER]
BECKY ABRAMS: And that's just--
JOY DOLO: That's because it's done in my dance. [LAUGHS]
BECKY ABRAMS: Yeah. And I would say, in the same vein, it was the musicality. Joy, that rap that you did in your DOG was Grammy worthy.
JOY DOLO: Oh.
BECKY ABRAMS: I am truly impressed. When I was listening to that, my jaw dropped. And I was, like, well, there goes the neighborhood.
[THEME MUSIC]
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that is it for today's debate battle. Presley, crowned mustard the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?
PRESLEY: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios.
BECKY ABRAMS: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie Dupont, Ruby Guthrie, and Auram Wuldess Ollessy.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Josh Sauvageau and Adam Weiss.
JOY DOLO: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.
BECKY ABRAMS: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, Anna Weggel, and Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman. And the APM Studios executives-in-charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Shaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman.
Joy, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?
JOY DOLO: Two people. I'd like to thank Quinn Chadco for understanding and listening to me rant against mayo in preparation for this. And also my little sister Patience for hating all condiments equally.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: And how about you, Becky? Any special thanks today?
BECKY ABRAMS: Oh. I have a little handful. I'm shouting out Jojo and SD, Roux and Minnie, Lizzie, Cal, Lincoln, Cash, Izzy, Kelly, and everyone I babysit.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
JOY DOLO: Aw.
MOLLY BLOOM: And Presley, do you want to give any special thanks?
PRESLEY: I think I'd like to shout-out my brother, Lindberg Simless. He's super cool. Yeah. Always supports me--
MOLLY BLOOM: That's really nice.
PRESLEY: --and would probably cheer me on. And also my AP Bio teacher, Miss Benson. She should be listening to this. And my debate coaches.
BECKY ABRAMS: Wow. AP Bio.
JOY DOLO: Sweet.
BECKY ABRAMS: Nice.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Before we go, let's check in with Elsie and see who she thinks would win her swings versus slides debate.
ELSIE: I think that swings would win because they make you feel like you're flying.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown, drag-out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
[THEME MUSIC]
Ta-ta!
JOY DOLO: Got, got--
BECKY ABRAMS: So long--
JOY DOLO: --got, got to go!
BECKY ABRAMS: --friends.
JOY DOLO: (RAPPING) Got, got, got, got, got to go!
(SINGING) Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Ooh, put you through the test. Ooh, you're the Smash Boom Best. Ooh, better than the rest. It's Smash Boom Best. It's Smash Boom Best.
BECKY ABRAMS: Also, mustard more like bustard. This has been outrageous so far. [LAUGHS]
JOY DOLO: Oh, dijon you make that up on your own?
BECKY ABRAMS: Ooh!
MOLLY BLOOM: Aha.
[LAUGHTER]
Transcription services provided by 3Play Media.
