Today’s debate is all about the breakfast of champions. Batter up, because it’s pancakes vs. waffles! Podcast producer and pancake promoter Marcel Malekebu goes griddle to iron with Terrible, Thanks for Asking host, author, and waffler Nora McInerny. Who will win this breakfast battle? Fabulous flapjacks or golden grids?
Vote below for the team YOU think won!
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Audio Transcript
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SPEAKER 1: From the brains behind Brains On, its Smash Boom Best.
SPEAKER 2: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best. The show where we take two things smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a tasty way to start your day. In one corner, we've got the treat that got Paul Bunyan on his feet versus the greatest yum of Belgium. Heat up your griddles and grab your batter. It's pancakes versus waffles. We've got friend of the show Marcel Malekebu here to sing the praises of pancakes.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Let's go. Put the cake in the pan.
MOLLY BLOOM: And another good pal of the podcast, it's Nora McInerney, ready to give it her all for team waffles.
NORA MCINERNEY: That's right. There's no waffling here when I talk about the fact that waffles are better than pancakes. That worked better when I typed it out than when I said it out loud.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all is Elise from Philadelphia. Elise loves baking brownies. And of course, her turtle Turtlelito.
ELISE: Hey, how you guys doing? I'm ready to judge this thing. Let's get it on.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. Elise, please tell us a little bit about Turtlelito.
ELISE: Turtlelito is my turtle. He is my pride and joy. I mean, I just love him. He's just a little thing I want to pack in my pocket take him everywhere. He is just so great.
MOLLY BLOOM: Can you describe what Turtlelito looks like?
ELISE: He is a retired slider turtle, big shell, green, brown, and red ear flaps. He's actually pretty cute.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have any words of wisdom for prospective turtle owners out there?
ELISE: Really take care of your turtles. They are really pretty big stinkers. Make sure their tank is clean.
MOLLY BLOOM: What does Turtlelito do to make him a stinker?
ELISE: He poops all over the place. One time he pooped on me.
MOLLY BLOOM: Turtlelito.
ELISE: I met Turtlelito was right. That's why he's a stinker because he makes a lot of bombs.
MOLLY BLOOM: But he's adorable anyway.
ELISE: He is.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love him very much. Well, we'll at least choose waffles or will she leggo her eggo for some tasty pancakes? Only she can tell. Elise, are you ready?
ELISE: I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Before we get into this debate, it's time to review the rules of the game. Round 1 is the Declaration of Greatness where our debaters present fact filled arguments in favor of their side, and they each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponents statements. Then we've got the Micro Round where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. Round 3 is the Sneak Attack where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot.
And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Our judge Elise will award two points in the first round. One for her favorite rebuttal, the other for the Declaration she liked best. Then she'll award one point in each round after that, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge to mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website smashboom.or and vote for whichever team you think won. Nora, Marcel, and Elise, are you ready?
ELISE: Oh, yeah.
NORA MCINERNEY: Oh, I'm ready.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Let's go.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness. We flipped a coin, and Marcel, you're up first. Tell us why pancakes make us ihop for joy.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I believe that a family that cooks together stays together. Once a month, my daughter Amani and I hang out and make pancakes. OK, mommy, it's time to mix it up. Are you ready? Mix it up. Mix it up little darling. Mix it up. Wow. You see how easy this is, Amani?
AMANI: Right.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yeah, all right. All you do is just put a starch, a liquid, and you can add oil if you want. Amani, now that we have our batter, shall we put something in it? So we put-- well, I guess we can't put chocolate chips in the whole thing because Amani doesn't like it. But you know what, pancakes are so easy to make. You can just put the chocolate chips in the pancakes while they're on the stove. I don't think you can do that while the waffle iron is cooking a waffle. Right, Amani?
AMANI: I finished it and make your bed make and welcome.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: We make pancakes because they're delicious and simple to make. Unlike waffles, they don't require any special equipment. All you need is a hot surface, a liquid, and a starch, and something to flip them with which could literally just be a fork. And that simplicity is part of why pancakes are eaten all over the world.
Around flat cakes like pancakes really are the food ambassadors of planet Earth. Here in North America, we just call them pancakes or flapjacks. But there are all kinds of them. You've got crepes from France. You've got Lahoh that people eat in Somalia and Yemen. In China, a lot of people eat scallion pancakes, and Chataamari in Nepal.
Pancakes are revered in so many different countries and they don't even need a passport to travel. And if you're wondering how pancakes became so popular in so many different places, it's because they've been around for so much longer than waffles. Pancakes are really old. The earliest recorded mentions of pancakes are from more than 2,500 years ago in Greek poetry.
The Greeks called these early pancakes "tigani" which comes from a word that means frying pan. Archeologists have even found evidence that our prehistoric ancestors made pancakes 30,000 years ago. But waffles? Waffles didn't come along until just over 1,000 years ago. Pancakes are more mature than waffles. They're more sophisticated because they've had way more time to have their recipe refined and perfected.
WAFFLE: Hey, Pancake. Do you want to hear the most annoying sound in the world?
PANCAKE: No, thanks Waffle. I'm just trying to read up on some new innovations in pancake science.
WAFFLE: Check this out.
PANCAKE: Waffle.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: That's the actual sound of a waffle iron farting because they do that. Meanwhile, instead of a fart, you can make pancake art. That's right. You can make modern masterpieces with pancake batter. You just eat the batter to draw on the griddle, and create cool looking pancakes. To aid me in my quest to learn more about pancake art, I got to talk to pancake artist Jenny Price.
JENNY PRICE: I have tried pretty much every box mix out there and they will all work in some way, shape, or form. You can have fun with pretty much any boxed mix out there. I've even done my own homemade recipes, and it always works.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Jenny uses these plastic squirt bottles to make her pancake art, but I didn't have any. So I asked her what I could use that I might already have around my house.
JENNY PRICE: You could basically start with a bag, snip off the end, draw with it.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Jenny says her favorite thing to make are bunny-shaped pancakes, but the options are endless with pancake art. And you don't need anything expensive or fancy to start great. But I still was wondering, what if I'm new to pancake art?
JENNY PRICE: My first pancakes were terrible. They looked awful, but it was so fun and that's the point of it. I just kept at it and couple of times a week I do pancake art and my kids did pancake art. You get better over time, but the fun is that's the heart of it. It's just really fun.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I learned so much from Jenny about pancake art. I grew up deep appreciation for the art form. But at the end of our talk, it had me thinking, where are all the down to Earth waffle artists that inspire others and support their communities like Jenny does?
JENNY PRICE: I have never met a waffle artist yet. Not yet.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: What does Amani think about waffles?
AMANI: And paper yummy.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Case closed.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. A very well-rounded argument there, featuring the cutest debate partner of all time.
NORA MCINERNEY: Yeah. I didn't know. I didn't know I was going to-- I didn't know I was facing off against two opponents. I didn't know that.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sorry. We didn't warn you. Elise, what did you think about Marcel's declaration? What stood out to you?
ELISE: I thought it was great. I mean, what stood out to me was definitely the time period because there was a long tradition with the time and how they were making it over and over and you could do it so many different ways. And then another thing that I saw was it could definitely be fun for families and good to teach people how to cook and especially kids like myself.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very good. All right. Well, Nora, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to pancake Marcel's argument, and your time starts now.
NORA MCINERNEY: OK, I respect that pancakes are old, that they're ancient, that they are a respected food source. And we can appreciate that. We can appreciate that rich history. Make way for something new, something exciting, something less soggy. And that something is waffles. Honestly, just 8 seconds of panicking and of a dog scratching at the door.
MOLLY BLOOM: And, time. Nicely done. You were so concise.
NORA MCINERNEY: I didn't even need the whole 30 seconds.
MOLLY BLOOM: Brevity. Brevity is the soul of whit. All right. Nora, tell us why waffles are the real breakfast of champions.
NORA MCINERNEY: Listen up. Waffles are crispy golden syrup saucers that have been bringing people together for generations. In fact, this delightful and oh so delicious breakfast food is so beloved that people used to have entire waffle-themed parties, beginning in the mid 1700s. That's a long time ago. Americans started hosting special parties called waffle frolics. Some hosts even made invitations out of satin that looked like waffles, scorch marks and everything.
MARC SANCHEZ: You are cordially invited to a waffle frolic. Be there or be a griddle square.
RUBY GUTHRIE: I must put on my frolicking finest. It's time to waffle.
NORA MCINERNEY: People get all dressed up and take turns making their own waffles and choosing their own toppings.
RUBY GUTHRIE: I think I'll put some honey on my waffles.
MARC SANCHEZ: And this little lad likes berries and cream.
NORA MCINERNEY: And you know why waffles are so fun to make together? Because they're easier than pancakes. Sure, you need a waffle iron, but the rest is super simple. You just pour in the batter, close the lid, have a little kitchen dance party, pop the lid open, and boom. A perfect waffle every time. Pancakes, on the other hand, have you ever made them? It's so much work. First, you have to get the griddle temperature just right. I mean, just right.
MARC SANCHEZ: Too hot.
NORA MCINERNEY: And even if you manage to get an OK temperature, you can't just pour on the batter and walk away. Absolutely not. No, no, no, no way. No dance breaks allowed. No fun allowed. Instead, you have to watch the griddle like a hawk, waiting an eternity for just one side to cook.
[CLOCK TICKING]
And when you finally work up enough confidence to flip, you better hope that batter doesn't go flying everywhere.
MARC SANCHEZ: Here we go. Oh. For the love of Bisquick.
NORA MCINERNEY: Waffles are easier to make and harder to mess up. Even a bad waffle is good. And that's because waffles have superior texture. They're golden crispy grids are basically built in cups for syrup and toppings, and waffles texture isn't just fun. It's practical much like Keanu Reeves waffles have integrity.
You can load them up with all kinds of toppings-- whipped cream, strawberries, chocolate chips, syrup, fried chicken. You name it, the waffle will not collapse. The waffle will hold. The waffle has the strength for all of this. There's a reason the Choco Taco is wrapped in a waffle. Plus they're portable. That's why you'll find people selling them all over the world, from crispy ones in the streets of Brussels, Belgium, to green pandan waffles in the markets of Vietnam.
Waffle's texture is so iconic. You see it everywhere. There are waffle cones, waffle fries, sweaters with a waffle knit, the coziest fabric out there, even the first Nike sneakers were inspired by a waffle iron. One of Nike's founders coach Bill Bowerman was making breakfast with his wife one day, when he realized.
BILL BOWERMAN: Hey. Oh, what if shoes had a waffle texture on the bottom? They'd be perfect for gripping the track. Somebody gave me a pen.
NORA MCINERNEY: And just like that. The Nike waffle trainer was born. Waffles aren't just style icons. They're in TV and movies, too. From Parks and Recs Leslie Knope to Eleven from Stranger Things who's obsessed with and arguably powered by Eggo waffles.
For my family, waffles are a love language. When my husband and I got married, we both already had kids. We were trying to merge two families and so we started a new tradition - waffle Sundays. Every Sunday, we crowd into the kitchen to make a big batch of waffles. The kids mix the batter in a big bowl, my husband pours it into the iron, and then we eat. These crispy little golden disks are a way to show we care about each other.
SON: Mom, come on. It's time for waffles.
DAUGHTER: Mom, come make us waffles.
NORA MCINERNEY: I got to go. But in conclusion, waffles are spectacular, pancakes are a disaster. Bye.
MOLLY BLOOM: An easy breezy declaration for waffles. Elise, tell us, what stood out to you about Nora's argument?
ELISE: I think something that really stood out to me was the Nike founder and how he had a design based on a waffle. That was really cool. And I love me some Nike so that was awesome. I also thought that people getting dressed up and coming together, I just love that notion. I think that was an awesome fact how they come together and eat toppings, berries and cream. That's one of my favorites. So that was pretty cool. Thank you, waffles.
MOLLY BLOOM: Thank you, waffles. All right, Marcel, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to put the awful in waffle. And your time starts now.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Put the off woman waffle is pretty easy for me. Let's start with the first point. Pancake or waffle parties are nice, but those started, I believe you said in the 1700s, when there was something called a pancake race starting in 1445, and people have been carrying that on, flipping pancakes and cast iron pans while racing for centuries. Also, you mentioned that they're easier for people to cook. Well, I would disagree, but I would say more importantly--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Don't let me-- don't get me started. I got so many points.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elise, it is time to award some points. Give one point to the Declaration of greatness you liked best, and then one point to the most awesome rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic to die for? Both points could go to the same debater or each debater could get one of them. Award your points but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ELISE: I think I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Nora and Marcel, how are you two feeling so far?
NORA MCINERNEY: I'm literally sweating. I can't explain the stress that I'm under right now.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yeah.
NORA MCINERNEY: I thought we were going to have fun today. I didn't know that I was--
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Marcel, are you also sweating?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I'm sweating a little bit. I drank too much coffee this morning and I wanted to get those points out so badly. My rebuttals.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, all this talk of food has made me hungry. So while I grab a quick snack, I'm going to sit back and relax.
ELISE: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're watching State of Debate. Home to rage in rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hey, debate heads. I'm Taylor Lincoln.
TODD DOUGLAS: And I'm Todd Douglas.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And we are here to report on logical fallacies: the nemesis of a good argument. These are the flaws in logic or reasoning of one side of a debate.
TODD DOUGLAS: Today's fallacy is the appeal to ignorance. That's when you argue something must be true because there's no evidence against it.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: You got to watch out. They can be sneaky, and they can happen at any moment, even at the dinner table.
WAITRESS: Welcome to Mama Betty Spaghetti. Table for two?
GABBY: Yes, please. Carla, you are going to love this place. Their Bolognese is out of this world, and they're ravioli are so cheesy. Oh, and the garlic bread so buttery, so garlicky.
CARLA: Ooh. Yes, please. With extra garlic. It keeps diamondback rattlesnakes away. They hate garlic.
GABBY: Wait, snakes? Garlic haters? That's not true.
CARLA: Really? Show me a snake that likes garlicky pasta or one with garlic breath even. I'll wait.
GABBY: Hold on. Just because I can't show you a garlic loving snake, doesn't mean garlic keeps them away?
CARLA: Or does it?
GABBY: No, it doesn't.
[BEEP]
TODD DOUGLAS: Holy ravioli, Taylor. That argument is pretty weak sauce.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yeah. Just because Gabby doesn't have proof that snakes love garlic, doesn't mean it'll scare them off.
TODD DOUGLAS: Carla is using the absence of proof to make a claim.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And you know what I always say. No proof, no argument.
TODD DOUGLAS: Tay Tay with the truth bomb. And you know who does love garlic? This guy. I'm going to go order some pizza and garlic bread. You want in?
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Extra cheese, please. And we'll see you next time on State of Debate.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host Molly Bloom.
ELISE: And I'm your judge Elise.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this cheesy debate idea from Mila.
MILA: My debate idea is Doritos versus Cheetos.
ELISE: Now, that's a snack smackdown I want to see.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Mila at the end of this episode to see which side she thinks should win.
ELISE: And now it's back to today's debate, pancakes and waffles.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for Round 2. The micro round. Today's micro round challenge is called conspiracy for good. A conspiracy theory is something that rejects the truth in favor of a wild idea that doesn't have proof. We don't encourage conspiracy theories here on Smash Boom Best because they're generally full of logical fallacies.
But we thought it would be humorous to imagine that waffles and pancakes are secretly responsible for some awesomeness in the world. Nora and Marcel, pull your unwilling friend aside and tell them your wild idea. Marcel went first last time, so Nora, you're up. Tell us about the secret delicious agenda behind waffles.
NORA MCINERNEY: Psst, hey. Hey, you.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Nora? Is that you? Why are you hiding in my azaleas? How long have you--
NORA MCINERNEY: That doesn't matter. Want to know a secret?
RUBY GUTHRIE: You're getting really close to my face.
NORA MCINERNEY: Waffles invented pockets.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Waffles invented pockets? I thought Polly Pocket invented pockets.
NORA MCINERNEY: Completely understandable, but no. Waffles invented pockets. Besides being the best breakfast food out there, they're behind every pocket ever made. It makes total sense because after all they're like the cargo pants of foods. Cool, stylish, useful, endlessly useful.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Cargo pants are cool?
NORA MCINERNEY: Yeah, as Zendaya.
RUBY GUTHRIE: I do trust Zendaya. She's a national treasure. But you're saying that waffles are responsible for pockets?
NORA MCINERNEY: Now, you're getting it. Waffles are the great equalizer, making sure everyone, no matter their size, age, or gender has excellent deep pockets. Any pocket you could possibly think of, a waffle have made it happen, including your jeans.
RUBY GUTHRIE: I do like these pockets. They're actually big enough to fit my phone. Because for so long, it seemed like pockets were barely big enough for a Tic Tac, or worse, they were fake.
NORA MCINERNEY: I know. Thank goodness for waffles, right?
RUBY GUTHRIE: So waffles invented every pocket, even the awesome hidden ones inside your jacket?
NORA MCINERNEY: Yeah.
RUBY GUTHRIE: The cute front pocket on overalls?
NORA MCINERNEY: Correct. Pocket doors. Pita pockets. Kangaroo pouches. All the work of a waffle.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Wow. Just when you think waffles couldn't get any more impressive.
NORA MCINERNEY: Waffles, the humanitarians of the millennium, and the last millennium of all time.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. Thank you, waffles. I love pockets. Marcel, now it's your turn to talk about the hidden plot of pancakes.
MARC SANCHEZ: I'm not even going to lie, bro. This oatmeal is fire. Why are they so much better than I remember?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Man, that's not oatmeal. Those are pancakes.
MARC SANCHEZ: What are you talking about?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: All right. Listen, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. See, for the past few years, pancakes have secretly invented and deployed a special type of nanobots that cast holographic projections over pancakes to make them look like other breakfast foods. So when you ate that oatmeal this morning, you weren't really eating oatmeal anymore. It was actually pancakes in disguise.
MARC SANCHEZ: What? That's ridiculous. Why would pancakes do such a thing? How can they create enough nanobots to cover the whole world?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: They're self-replicating nanobots, cue. And it's because the pancake has been under attack by the evil waffle. Waffles want to drain all joy from breakfast because they're jealous of pancakes. But pancakes are not going to back down. They're doing good for humanity. They pretend to be other foods so waffles will just leave them alone. Then, unsuspecting people like you get to eat pancakes every single day and feel joyful. Pancakes are pure edible happiness.
MARC SANCHEZ: Oh my gosh. How do we support pancakes on this quest to save us from bad breakfast food?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: You can't. All we can do is salute the pancake from afar and spread the gospel of the greatness of the pancake.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elise, what stood out to you about those two micro rounds?
ELISE: Oh. There's so much to say. I mean, that was very, very interesting. The pockets for the waffles? I mean, that is very impressive. I mean, I have to say that I do love some pockets on my jeans and on my clothes, so that was really fun. And with pancakes, that is really, really cool. The nanobots? I mean, that's just in another universe.
MOLLY BLOOM: High tech.
ELISE: High tech. That feels unreal. It's going to be a close one.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Well, it's time to award a point. The criteria is totally up to you. Did someone make you laugh? Did someone make you think? Did someone convince you that their conspiracy was true? Board a point but don't tell us who it's going to. Have you made your decision?
ELISE: I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then, it's time for our third around, the super stealthy sneak attack. Your sneak attack is called slow motion rap battle. Marcel and Nora, it's your job to make three rhyming couplets about why your side is awesome. We'll go back and forth between the two of you, but here's the catch. Each time you start a new couplet, the first word of your couplet has to rhyme with the other person's last word.
For example, if I was in a fire versus ice debate, it might go like this: Fire, fire, it lights up the night. Gather around, the fire bright. And then ice would go, Fight the cold, brr, it's here. Ice is cold, and it's sort of clear. Then fire would go, Dear fire, I love you, et cetera, et cetera. All right. Nora went first last time so Marcel, you get to start. Please start with your first couplet for pancakes.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Pancakes are fire, the food of desire. Delicious heavenly made to inspire.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice.
NORA MCINERNEY: OK, I'm sorry. Did you literally just make that up right this second?
MOLLY BLOOM: He's good.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I mean, in the time, well, yeah.
NORA MCINERNEY: Did you?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I mean, I didn't have it ready.
NORA MCINERNEY:
ELISE: I'm toast. I'm toast.
MOLLY BLOOM: No, Nora. Believe in yourself. Believe in yourself.
NORA MCINERNEY: You're going to see I am so slow on my feet that I-- Oh. OK. Wire is a word that rhymes with what Marcel said. If I couldn't eat waffles, I'd rather be dead.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: You said, what was the last one again?
NORA MCINERNEY: The last one was dead. Dead.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: OK, good. Great. Bread from the greatness of cultures of past, pancakes come first and waffles come last.
NORA MCINERNEY: Oh, my gosh.
MOLLY BLOOM: That was great. All right. Nora, you got to rhyme with last for your first word.
NORA MCINERNEY: OK. Faster than pan-- oh. Faster than pancakes and they hold their shape. Pancakes are fine, waffles are great.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very nice. Very nice. All right, Marcel. Rhyme with great.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Woo. All right. I'm going to just-- late to the party waffles can't win, pancakes are early--
NORA MCINERNEY: The suspense.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: They destroy them again.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Very nice. Very nice. All right. Nora, one more.
NORA MCINERNEY: Again.
MOLLY BLOOM: One more couplet again.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: It's getting down to the wire.
NORA MCINERNEY: OK, I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm going in slow motion. Begin with breakfast, the best meal of the day. A big plate of waffles is the only way.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very nice.
NORA MCINERNEY: Oh, wow.
MOLLY BLOOM: Slow motion rap battle. Slight. Quite impressed.
[LAUGHTER]
NORA MCINERNEY: It's by carrier pigeons.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Elise, think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point again. The criteria is up to you. Have you made your decision?
ELISE: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then it's time for our final around. The final six. All right. Nora, you've got six words to show why we shouldn't waffle when it comes to waffles.
NORA MCINERNEY: Everything pancakes have, but with pockets.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah. That's very nice. All right. Marcel, let's hear your six words that'll make us flip for pancakes.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: The world falls apart, pancakes remain.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, lovely. OK. Elise, it is time to award a point for this a final six.
ELISE: All right. All right. I have done it. I have done it. Oh, gosh.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, so tally up the points.
ELISE: Got it. It's all tallied up. It's done. Even though they might have the same batter, one of them has to be better. Oh.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Hey, oh.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, very nice. All right. Drum roll please. And the winner is?
[DRUM ROLL]
ELISE: Pancakes.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Hey. Put the cake in a pan. Put the cake in the pan. Put the cake in the pan. Yeah.
ELISE: It was a 3 to 2 win.
MOLLY BLOOM: As close as it can get.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: So sad.
NORA MCINERNEY: As close as it can get. Well, you know what? This loss does not feel quite as painful as the last one. I have to say. I have to say. I think because Marcel and I are friends. He knows in his heart that he's wrong.
[LAUGHTER]
We'll get through this. We'll move forward with it.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Elise, I got to know. Was there a moment that decided it for pancakes?
ELISE: Really? I really don't know. I mean, they came with their game at the same time. I'm not sure.
MOLLY BLOOM: That was a really close debate.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Nora, that was great. I didn't know that the waffle shoes thing, the soles were-- I mean, but I guess that makes sense. I've always called my family the waffle colored wonders.
[LAUGHTER]
I'm really glad that you were able to support a wonderful breakfast item. And you did a great job.
NORA MCINERNEY: I always say this about you, Marcel. I always tell you this. You're just so funny. You're so quick on your feet. I did not have a prep-- I knew when we had a rhyme on the spot. I was going down. I was going down. But here's what else I will say. You made such good points that tonight we're having pancakes for dinner.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that's it for today's debate battle. Elise crowned pancakes a Smash Boom Best, but what about you?
ELISE: Catch a smashboomdot.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM studios.
NORA MCINERNEY: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie DuPont, Ruby Guthrie, and our own Wildest Lassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Alex Simpson and Zack Hani with sound design by Rachel Breeze.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.
NORA MCINERNEY: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, Anna Weggel, oh I love her, and Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Foiricootto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Marcel, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I'm going to give a shout out to Amani. She is such a wonderful co-host, I guess, so to speak. A wonderful partner in this endeavor.
MOLLY BLOOM: Amani. And how about you, Nora, any special shout outs?
NORA MCINERNEY: I also want to give a shout out to my friend Amani. I think that if I would have gotten to her first, we could have had a different result. A shout out to my kids who have only knocked on this door seven or eight times since we started recording. I'll be out in a minute.
MOLLY BLOOM: Elise, any special thanks or shoutouts?
ELISE: Oh, thank you to my mom, dad, my friends, Alexis Taylor. All of them. Erica, Cheyenne, Mia, my friends. Thank you guys for listening.
MOLLY BLOOM: And before we go, let's check in with Mila and see who she thinks should win her Doritos versus Cheetos debate.
MILA: I think that Doritos should win because they taste way better.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown drag out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
ELISE: Bye.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
NORA MCINERNEY: She's like, well, I felt very bad for this woman. Clearly.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Staring. Steering.
ELISE: Crickets. Crickets.
[LAUGHTER]
NORA MCINERNEY: Is this woman alive? I don't know. Is anyone still there?
[LAUGHTER]
SPEAKER 2: The show for people with big opinions.
MOLLY BLOOM: Hi I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best. The show where we take two things smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a tasty way to start your day. In one corner, we've got the treat that got Paul Bunyan on his feet versus the greatest yum of Belgium. Heat up your griddles and grab your batter. It's pancakes versus waffles. We've got friend of the show Marcel Malekebu here to sing the praises of pancakes.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Let's go. Put the cake in the pan.
MOLLY BLOOM: And another good pal of the podcast, it's Nora McInerney, ready to give it her all for team waffles.
NORA MCINERNEY: That's right. There's no waffling here when I talk about the fact that waffles are better than pancakes. That worked better when I typed it out than when I said it out loud.
MOLLY BLOOM: And here to judge it all is Elise from Philadelphia. Elise loves baking brownies. And of course, her turtle Turtlelito.
ELISE: Hey, how you guys doing? I'm ready to judge this thing. Let's get it on.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yes. Elise, please tell us a little bit about Turtlelito.
ELISE: Turtlelito is my turtle. He is my pride and joy. I mean, I just love him. He's just a little thing I want to pack in my pocket take him everywhere. He is just so great.
MOLLY BLOOM: Can you describe what Turtlelito looks like?
ELISE: He is a retired slider turtle, big shell, green, brown, and red ear flaps. He's actually pretty cute.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have any words of wisdom for prospective turtle owners out there?
ELISE: Really take care of your turtles. They are really pretty big stinkers. Make sure their tank is clean.
MOLLY BLOOM: What does Turtlelito do to make him a stinker?
ELISE: He poops all over the place. One time he pooped on me.
MOLLY BLOOM: Turtlelito.
ELISE: I met Turtlelito was right. That's why he's a stinker because he makes a lot of bombs.
MOLLY BLOOM: But he's adorable anyway.
ELISE: He is.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love him very much. Well, we'll at least choose waffles or will she leggo her eggo for some tasty pancakes? Only she can tell. Elise, are you ready?
ELISE: I am.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Before we get into this debate, it's time to review the rules of the game. Round 1 is the Declaration of Greatness where our debaters present fact filled arguments in favor of their side, and they each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponents statements. Then we've got the Micro Round where each team will present a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. Round 3 is the Sneak Attack where our debaters will have to respond to an improv challenge on the spot.
And to wrap it all up, we've got the final six where each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Our judge Elise will award two points in the first round. One for her favorite rebuttal, the other for the Declaration she liked best. Then she'll award one point in each round after that, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge to mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website smashboom.or and vote for whichever team you think won. Nora, Marcel, and Elise, are you ready?
ELISE: Oh, yeah.
NORA MCINERNEY: Oh, I'm ready.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Let's go.
MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness. We flipped a coin, and Marcel, you're up first. Tell us why pancakes make us ihop for joy.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I believe that a family that cooks together stays together. Once a month, my daughter Amani and I hang out and make pancakes. OK, mommy, it's time to mix it up. Are you ready? Mix it up. Mix it up little darling. Mix it up. Wow. You see how easy this is, Amani?
AMANI: Right.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yeah, all right. All you do is just put a starch, a liquid, and you can add oil if you want. Amani, now that we have our batter, shall we put something in it? So we put-- well, I guess we can't put chocolate chips in the whole thing because Amani doesn't like it. But you know what, pancakes are so easy to make. You can just put the chocolate chips in the pancakes while they're on the stove. I don't think you can do that while the waffle iron is cooking a waffle. Right, Amani?
AMANI: I finished it and make your bed make and welcome.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: We make pancakes because they're delicious and simple to make. Unlike waffles, they don't require any special equipment. All you need is a hot surface, a liquid, and a starch, and something to flip them with which could literally just be a fork. And that simplicity is part of why pancakes are eaten all over the world.
Around flat cakes like pancakes really are the food ambassadors of planet Earth. Here in North America, we just call them pancakes or flapjacks. But there are all kinds of them. You've got crepes from France. You've got Lahoh that people eat in Somalia and Yemen. In China, a lot of people eat scallion pancakes, and Chataamari in Nepal.
Pancakes are revered in so many different countries and they don't even need a passport to travel. And if you're wondering how pancakes became so popular in so many different places, it's because they've been around for so much longer than waffles. Pancakes are really old. The earliest recorded mentions of pancakes are from more than 2,500 years ago in Greek poetry.
The Greeks called these early pancakes "tigani" which comes from a word that means frying pan. Archeologists have even found evidence that our prehistoric ancestors made pancakes 30,000 years ago. But waffles? Waffles didn't come along until just over 1,000 years ago. Pancakes are more mature than waffles. They're more sophisticated because they've had way more time to have their recipe refined and perfected.
WAFFLE: Hey, Pancake. Do you want to hear the most annoying sound in the world?
PANCAKE: No, thanks Waffle. I'm just trying to read up on some new innovations in pancake science.
WAFFLE: Check this out.
PANCAKE: Waffle.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: That's the actual sound of a waffle iron farting because they do that. Meanwhile, instead of a fart, you can make pancake art. That's right. You can make modern masterpieces with pancake batter. You just eat the batter to draw on the griddle, and create cool looking pancakes. To aid me in my quest to learn more about pancake art, I got to talk to pancake artist Jenny Price.
JENNY PRICE: I have tried pretty much every box mix out there and they will all work in some way, shape, or form. You can have fun with pretty much any boxed mix out there. I've even done my own homemade recipes, and it always works.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Jenny uses these plastic squirt bottles to make her pancake art, but I didn't have any. So I asked her what I could use that I might already have around my house.
JENNY PRICE: You could basically start with a bag, snip off the end, draw with it.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Jenny says her favorite thing to make are bunny-shaped pancakes, but the options are endless with pancake art. And you don't need anything expensive or fancy to start great. But I still was wondering, what if I'm new to pancake art?
JENNY PRICE: My first pancakes were terrible. They looked awful, but it was so fun and that's the point of it. I just kept at it and couple of times a week I do pancake art and my kids did pancake art. You get better over time, but the fun is that's the heart of it. It's just really fun.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I learned so much from Jenny about pancake art. I grew up deep appreciation for the art form. But at the end of our talk, it had me thinking, where are all the down to Earth waffle artists that inspire others and support their communities like Jenny does?
JENNY PRICE: I have never met a waffle artist yet. Not yet.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: What does Amani think about waffles?
AMANI: And paper yummy.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Case closed.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. A very well-rounded argument there, featuring the cutest debate partner of all time.
NORA MCINERNEY: Yeah. I didn't know. I didn't know I was going to-- I didn't know I was facing off against two opponents. I didn't know that.
MOLLY BLOOM: Sorry. We didn't warn you. Elise, what did you think about Marcel's declaration? What stood out to you?
ELISE: I thought it was great. I mean, what stood out to me was definitely the time period because there was a long tradition with the time and how they were making it over and over and you could do it so many different ways. And then another thing that I saw was it could definitely be fun for families and good to teach people how to cook and especially kids like myself.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very good. All right. Well, Nora, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to pancake Marcel's argument, and your time starts now.
NORA MCINERNEY: OK, I respect that pancakes are old, that they're ancient, that they are a respected food source. And we can appreciate that. We can appreciate that rich history. Make way for something new, something exciting, something less soggy. And that something is waffles. Honestly, just 8 seconds of panicking and of a dog scratching at the door.
MOLLY BLOOM: And, time. Nicely done. You were so concise.
NORA MCINERNEY: I didn't even need the whole 30 seconds.
MOLLY BLOOM: Brevity. Brevity is the soul of whit. All right. Nora, tell us why waffles are the real breakfast of champions.
NORA MCINERNEY: Listen up. Waffles are crispy golden syrup saucers that have been bringing people together for generations. In fact, this delightful and oh so delicious breakfast food is so beloved that people used to have entire waffle-themed parties, beginning in the mid 1700s. That's a long time ago. Americans started hosting special parties called waffle frolics. Some hosts even made invitations out of satin that looked like waffles, scorch marks and everything.
MARC SANCHEZ: You are cordially invited to a waffle frolic. Be there or be a griddle square.
RUBY GUTHRIE: I must put on my frolicking finest. It's time to waffle.
NORA MCINERNEY: People get all dressed up and take turns making their own waffles and choosing their own toppings.
RUBY GUTHRIE: I think I'll put some honey on my waffles.
MARC SANCHEZ: And this little lad likes berries and cream.
NORA MCINERNEY: And you know why waffles are so fun to make together? Because they're easier than pancakes. Sure, you need a waffle iron, but the rest is super simple. You just pour in the batter, close the lid, have a little kitchen dance party, pop the lid open, and boom. A perfect waffle every time. Pancakes, on the other hand, have you ever made them? It's so much work. First, you have to get the griddle temperature just right. I mean, just right.
MARC SANCHEZ: Too hot.
NORA MCINERNEY: And even if you manage to get an OK temperature, you can't just pour on the batter and walk away. Absolutely not. No, no, no, no way. No dance breaks allowed. No fun allowed. Instead, you have to watch the griddle like a hawk, waiting an eternity for just one side to cook.
[CLOCK TICKING]
And when you finally work up enough confidence to flip, you better hope that batter doesn't go flying everywhere.
MARC SANCHEZ: Here we go. Oh. For the love of Bisquick.
NORA MCINERNEY: Waffles are easier to make and harder to mess up. Even a bad waffle is good. And that's because waffles have superior texture. They're golden crispy grids are basically built in cups for syrup and toppings, and waffles texture isn't just fun. It's practical much like Keanu Reeves waffles have integrity.
You can load them up with all kinds of toppings-- whipped cream, strawberries, chocolate chips, syrup, fried chicken. You name it, the waffle will not collapse. The waffle will hold. The waffle has the strength for all of this. There's a reason the Choco Taco is wrapped in a waffle. Plus they're portable. That's why you'll find people selling them all over the world, from crispy ones in the streets of Brussels, Belgium, to green pandan waffles in the markets of Vietnam.
Waffle's texture is so iconic. You see it everywhere. There are waffle cones, waffle fries, sweaters with a waffle knit, the coziest fabric out there, even the first Nike sneakers were inspired by a waffle iron. One of Nike's founders coach Bill Bowerman was making breakfast with his wife one day, when he realized.
BILL BOWERMAN: Hey. Oh, what if shoes had a waffle texture on the bottom? They'd be perfect for gripping the track. Somebody gave me a pen.
NORA MCINERNEY: And just like that. The Nike waffle trainer was born. Waffles aren't just style icons. They're in TV and movies, too. From Parks and Recs Leslie Knope to Eleven from Stranger Things who's obsessed with and arguably powered by Eggo waffles.
For my family, waffles are a love language. When my husband and I got married, we both already had kids. We were trying to merge two families and so we started a new tradition - waffle Sundays. Every Sunday, we crowd into the kitchen to make a big batch of waffles. The kids mix the batter in a big bowl, my husband pours it into the iron, and then we eat. These crispy little golden disks are a way to show we care about each other.
SON: Mom, come on. It's time for waffles.
DAUGHTER: Mom, come make us waffles.
NORA MCINERNEY: I got to go. But in conclusion, waffles are spectacular, pancakes are a disaster. Bye.
MOLLY BLOOM: An easy breezy declaration for waffles. Elise, tell us, what stood out to you about Nora's argument?
ELISE: I think something that really stood out to me was the Nike founder and how he had a design based on a waffle. That was really cool. And I love me some Nike so that was awesome. I also thought that people getting dressed up and coming together, I just love that notion. I think that was an awesome fact how they come together and eat toppings, berries and cream. That's one of my favorites. So that was pretty cool. Thank you, waffles.
MOLLY BLOOM: Thank you, waffles. All right, Marcel, it's time for your rebuttal. You've got 30 seconds to put the awful in waffle. And your time starts now.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Put the off woman waffle is pretty easy for me. Let's start with the first point. Pancake or waffle parties are nice, but those started, I believe you said in the 1700s, when there was something called a pancake race starting in 1445, and people have been carrying that on, flipping pancakes and cast iron pans while racing for centuries. Also, you mentioned that they're easier for people to cook. Well, I would disagree, but I would say more importantly--
MOLLY BLOOM: And time.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Don't let me-- don't get me started. I got so many points.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elise, it is time to award some points. Give one point to the Declaration of greatness you liked best, and then one point to the most awesome rebuttal. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic to die for? Both points could go to the same debater or each debater could get one of them. Award your points but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?
ELISE: I think I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Nora and Marcel, how are you two feeling so far?
NORA MCINERNEY: I'm literally sweating. I can't explain the stress that I'm under right now.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Yeah.
NORA MCINERNEY: I thought we were going to have fun today. I didn't know that I was--
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: Marcel, are you also sweating?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I'm sweating a little bit. I drank too much coffee this morning and I wanted to get those points out so badly. My rebuttals.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, all this talk of food has made me hungry. So while I grab a quick snack, I'm going to sit back and relax.
ELISE: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're watching State of Debate. Home to rage in rhetoric and awe inspiring argumentation.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hey, debate heads. I'm Taylor Lincoln.
TODD DOUGLAS: And I'm Todd Douglas.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And we are here to report on logical fallacies: the nemesis of a good argument. These are the flaws in logic or reasoning of one side of a debate.
TODD DOUGLAS: Today's fallacy is the appeal to ignorance. That's when you argue something must be true because there's no evidence against it.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: You got to watch out. They can be sneaky, and they can happen at any moment, even at the dinner table.
WAITRESS: Welcome to Mama Betty Spaghetti. Table for two?
GABBY: Yes, please. Carla, you are going to love this place. Their Bolognese is out of this world, and they're ravioli are so cheesy. Oh, and the garlic bread so buttery, so garlicky.
CARLA: Ooh. Yes, please. With extra garlic. It keeps diamondback rattlesnakes away. They hate garlic.
GABBY: Wait, snakes? Garlic haters? That's not true.
CARLA: Really? Show me a snake that likes garlicky pasta or one with garlic breath even. I'll wait.
GABBY: Hold on. Just because I can't show you a garlic loving snake, doesn't mean garlic keeps them away?
CARLA: Or does it?
GABBY: No, it doesn't.
[BEEP]
TODD DOUGLAS: Holy ravioli, Taylor. That argument is pretty weak sauce.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yeah. Just because Gabby doesn't have proof that snakes love garlic, doesn't mean it'll scare them off.
TODD DOUGLAS: Carla is using the absence of proof to make a claim.
TAYLOR LINCOLN: And you know what I always say. No proof, no argument.
TODD DOUGLAS: Tay Tay with the truth bomb. And you know who does love garlic? This guy. I'm going to go order some pizza and garlic bread. You want in?
TAYLOR LINCOLN: Extra cheese, please. And we'll see you next time on State of Debate.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host Molly Bloom.
ELISE: And I'm your judge Elise.
MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this cheesy debate idea from Mila.
MILA: My debate idea is Doritos versus Cheetos.
ELISE: Now, that's a snack smackdown I want to see.
MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back with Mila at the end of this episode to see which side she thinks should win.
ELISE: And now it's back to today's debate, pancakes and waffles.
MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for Round 2. The micro round. Today's micro round challenge is called conspiracy for good. A conspiracy theory is something that rejects the truth in favor of a wild idea that doesn't have proof. We don't encourage conspiracy theories here on Smash Boom Best because they're generally full of logical fallacies.
But we thought it would be humorous to imagine that waffles and pancakes are secretly responsible for some awesomeness in the world. Nora and Marcel, pull your unwilling friend aside and tell them your wild idea. Marcel went first last time, so Nora, you're up. Tell us about the secret delicious agenda behind waffles.
NORA MCINERNEY: Psst, hey. Hey, you.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Nora? Is that you? Why are you hiding in my azaleas? How long have you--
NORA MCINERNEY: That doesn't matter. Want to know a secret?
RUBY GUTHRIE: You're getting really close to my face.
NORA MCINERNEY: Waffles invented pockets.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Waffles invented pockets? I thought Polly Pocket invented pockets.
NORA MCINERNEY: Completely understandable, but no. Waffles invented pockets. Besides being the best breakfast food out there, they're behind every pocket ever made. It makes total sense because after all they're like the cargo pants of foods. Cool, stylish, useful, endlessly useful.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Cargo pants are cool?
NORA MCINERNEY: Yeah, as Zendaya.
RUBY GUTHRIE: I do trust Zendaya. She's a national treasure. But you're saying that waffles are responsible for pockets?
NORA MCINERNEY: Now, you're getting it. Waffles are the great equalizer, making sure everyone, no matter their size, age, or gender has excellent deep pockets. Any pocket you could possibly think of, a waffle have made it happen, including your jeans.
RUBY GUTHRIE: I do like these pockets. They're actually big enough to fit my phone. Because for so long, it seemed like pockets were barely big enough for a Tic Tac, or worse, they were fake.
NORA MCINERNEY: I know. Thank goodness for waffles, right?
RUBY GUTHRIE: So waffles invented every pocket, even the awesome hidden ones inside your jacket?
NORA MCINERNEY: Yeah.
RUBY GUTHRIE: The cute front pocket on overalls?
NORA MCINERNEY: Correct. Pocket doors. Pita pockets. Kangaroo pouches. All the work of a waffle.
RUBY GUTHRIE: Wow. Just when you think waffles couldn't get any more impressive.
NORA MCINERNEY: Waffles, the humanitarians of the millennium, and the last millennium of all time.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. Thank you, waffles. I love pockets. Marcel, now it's your turn to talk about the hidden plot of pancakes.
MARC SANCHEZ: I'm not even going to lie, bro. This oatmeal is fire. Why are they so much better than I remember?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Man, that's not oatmeal. Those are pancakes.
MARC SANCHEZ: What are you talking about?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: All right. Listen, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. See, for the past few years, pancakes have secretly invented and deployed a special type of nanobots that cast holographic projections over pancakes to make them look like other breakfast foods. So when you ate that oatmeal this morning, you weren't really eating oatmeal anymore. It was actually pancakes in disguise.
MARC SANCHEZ: What? That's ridiculous. Why would pancakes do such a thing? How can they create enough nanobots to cover the whole world?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: They're self-replicating nanobots, cue. And it's because the pancake has been under attack by the evil waffle. Waffles want to drain all joy from breakfast because they're jealous of pancakes. But pancakes are not going to back down. They're doing good for humanity. They pretend to be other foods so waffles will just leave them alone. Then, unsuspecting people like you get to eat pancakes every single day and feel joyful. Pancakes are pure edible happiness.
MARC SANCHEZ: Oh my gosh. How do we support pancakes on this quest to save us from bad breakfast food?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: You can't. All we can do is salute the pancake from afar and spread the gospel of the greatness of the pancake.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Elise, what stood out to you about those two micro rounds?
ELISE: Oh. There's so much to say. I mean, that was very, very interesting. The pockets for the waffles? I mean, that is very impressive. I mean, I have to say that I do love some pockets on my jeans and on my clothes, so that was really fun. And with pancakes, that is really, really cool. The nanobots? I mean, that's just in another universe.
MOLLY BLOOM: High tech.
ELISE: High tech. That feels unreal. It's going to be a close one.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Well, it's time to award a point. The criteria is totally up to you. Did someone make you laugh? Did someone make you think? Did someone convince you that their conspiracy was true? Board a point but don't tell us who it's going to. Have you made your decision?
ELISE: I have.
MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then, it's time for our third around, the super stealthy sneak attack. Your sneak attack is called slow motion rap battle. Marcel and Nora, it's your job to make three rhyming couplets about why your side is awesome. We'll go back and forth between the two of you, but here's the catch. Each time you start a new couplet, the first word of your couplet has to rhyme with the other person's last word.
For example, if I was in a fire versus ice debate, it might go like this: Fire, fire, it lights up the night. Gather around, the fire bright. And then ice would go, Fight the cold, brr, it's here. Ice is cold, and it's sort of clear. Then fire would go, Dear fire, I love you, et cetera, et cetera. All right. Nora went first last time so Marcel, you get to start. Please start with your first couplet for pancakes.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Pancakes are fire, the food of desire. Delicious heavenly made to inspire.
MOLLY BLOOM: Nice.
NORA MCINERNEY: OK, I'm sorry. Did you literally just make that up right this second?
MOLLY BLOOM: He's good.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I mean, in the time, well, yeah.
NORA MCINERNEY: Did you?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I mean, I didn't have it ready.
NORA MCINERNEY:
ELISE: I'm toast. I'm toast.
MOLLY BLOOM: No, Nora. Believe in yourself. Believe in yourself.
NORA MCINERNEY: You're going to see I am so slow on my feet that I-- Oh. OK. Wire is a word that rhymes with what Marcel said. If I couldn't eat waffles, I'd rather be dead.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: You said, what was the last one again?
NORA MCINERNEY: The last one was dead. Dead.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: OK, good. Great. Bread from the greatness of cultures of past, pancakes come first and waffles come last.
NORA MCINERNEY: Oh, my gosh.
MOLLY BLOOM: That was great. All right. Nora, you got to rhyme with last for your first word.
NORA MCINERNEY: OK. Faster than pan-- oh. Faster than pancakes and they hold their shape. Pancakes are fine, waffles are great.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very nice. Very nice. All right, Marcel. Rhyme with great.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Woo. All right. I'm going to just-- late to the party waffles can't win, pancakes are early--
NORA MCINERNEY: The suspense.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: They destroy them again.
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Very nice. Very nice. All right. Nora, one more.
NORA MCINERNEY: Again.
MOLLY BLOOM: One more couplet again.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: It's getting down to the wire.
NORA MCINERNEY: OK, I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm going in slow motion. Begin with breakfast, the best meal of the day. A big plate of waffles is the only way.
MOLLY BLOOM: Very nice.
NORA MCINERNEY: Oh, wow.
MOLLY BLOOM: Slow motion rap battle. Slight. Quite impressed.
[LAUGHTER]
NORA MCINERNEY: It's by carrier pigeons.
[LAUGHTER]
MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Elise, think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point again. The criteria is up to you. Have you made your decision?
ELISE: Yes.
MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Then it's time for our final around. The final six. All right. Nora, you've got six words to show why we shouldn't waffle when it comes to waffles.
NORA MCINERNEY: Everything pancakes have, but with pockets.
MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah. That's very nice. All right. Marcel, let's hear your six words that'll make us flip for pancakes.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: The world falls apart, pancakes remain.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, lovely. OK. Elise, it is time to award a point for this a final six.
ELISE: All right. All right. I have done it. I have done it. Oh, gosh.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right, so tally up the points.
ELISE: Got it. It's all tallied up. It's done. Even though they might have the same batter, one of them has to be better. Oh.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Hey, oh.
MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, very nice. All right. Drum roll please. And the winner is?
[DRUM ROLL]
ELISE: Pancakes.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Hey. Put the cake in a pan. Put the cake in the pan. Put the cake in the pan. Yeah.
ELISE: It was a 3 to 2 win.
MOLLY BLOOM: As close as it can get.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: So sad.
NORA MCINERNEY: As close as it can get. Well, you know what? This loss does not feel quite as painful as the last one. I have to say. I have to say. I think because Marcel and I are friends. He knows in his heart that he's wrong.
[LAUGHTER]
We'll get through this. We'll move forward with it.
MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Elise, I got to know. Was there a moment that decided it for pancakes?
ELISE: Really? I really don't know. I mean, they came with their game at the same time. I'm not sure.
MOLLY BLOOM: That was a really close debate.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Nora, that was great. I didn't know that the waffle shoes thing, the soles were-- I mean, but I guess that makes sense. I've always called my family the waffle colored wonders.
[LAUGHTER]
I'm really glad that you were able to support a wonderful breakfast item. And you did a great job.
NORA MCINERNEY: I always say this about you, Marcel. I always tell you this. You're just so funny. You're so quick on your feet. I did not have a prep-- I knew when we had a rhyme on the spot. I was going down. I was going down. But here's what else I will say. You made such good points that tonight we're having pancakes for dinner.
MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that's it for today's debate battle. Elise crowned pancakes a Smash Boom Best, but what about you?
ELISE: Catch a smashboomdot.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM studios.
NORA MCINERNEY: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie DuPont, Ruby Guthrie, and our own Wildest Lassie.
MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Alex Simpson and Zack Hani with sound design by Rachel Breeze.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.
NORA MCINERNEY: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, Anna Weggel, oh I love her, and Nico Gonzalez Wisler.
MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Foiricootto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Marcel, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
MARCEL MALEKEBU: I'm going to give a shout out to Amani. She is such a wonderful co-host, I guess, so to speak. A wonderful partner in this endeavor.
MOLLY BLOOM: Amani. And how about you, Nora, any special shout outs?
NORA MCINERNEY: I also want to give a shout out to my friend Amani. I think that if I would have gotten to her first, we could have had a different result. A shout out to my kids who have only knocked on this door seven or eight times since we started recording. I'll be out in a minute.
MOLLY BLOOM: Elise, any special thanks or shoutouts?
ELISE: Oh, thank you to my mom, dad, my friends, Alexis Taylor. All of them. Erica, Cheyenne, Mia, my friends. Thank you guys for listening.
MOLLY BLOOM: And before we go, let's check in with Mila and see who she thinks should win her Doritos versus Cheetos debate.
MILA: I think that Doritos should win because they taste way better.
MOLLY BLOOM: Do you have an idea for a knockdown drag out debate? Head to smashboom.org and tell us about it. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week.
ELISE: Bye.
[THEME MUSIC PLAYING]
NORA MCINERNEY: She's like, well, I felt very bad for this woman. Clearly.
MARCEL MALEKEBU: Staring. Steering.
ELISE: Crickets. Crickets.
[LAUGHTER]
NORA MCINERNEY: Is this woman alive? I don't know. Is anyone still there?
[LAUGHTER]
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