Today’s debate is a saucy matchup of two flavorful feasts. It’s zesty tang meets creamy dream – hot sauce vs. butter! Brains On co-creator Marc Sanchez is ready to sizzle for team Hot Sauce and podcast producer Tracy Mumford will take you from bland to grand with Team Butter.

Vote below for the team YOU think won!

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Audio Transcript

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SPEAKER: From the brains behind Brains On!, it's Smash Boom Best.

SPEAKER: The show for people with big opinions.


MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom. And this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate is a saucy match-up of two flavorful feasts. Its zesty tang meets creamy dream, hot sauce versus butter. We've got Brains On! co-creator Marc Sanchez ready to sizzle for team hot sauce.

MARC SANCHEZ: It's saucy, it's sassy, it's altogether classy, it's hot sauce!


MARC SANCHEZ: What's up?

MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] And podcast producer Tracy Mumford is here to take you from bland to grand with team butter.

TRACY MUMFORD: I'm incredible, I'm spreadable, I'm butter, and I'm going to stick it to you.

MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh. And here to judge it all is Sayeeda from Los Angeles. Sayeeda was class president two years in a row, likes to thread eyebrows, and has an artificial bone in her leg. Hi, Sayeeda!

SAYEEDA: Hi, Molly.

MOLLY BLOOM: So, Sayeeda, threading eyebrows, that's when you use a thread to twist the hairs and pull them out?


MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Is that hard to do?

SAYEEDA: It's not hard to learn, but it's hard to be the victim of it.


SAYEEDA: Pulling the hairs out definitely-- I mean, that kind of pain is indescribable. When my mom first did it on me, honestly, I cried for the rest of the day.


SAYEEDA: And, honestly, it's just a hereditary thing in my culture threading eyebrows, threading any kind of facial hair, it's just something that Pakistani households do. It's honestly natural at this point.

MOLLY BLOOM: So what age did you start doing threading?

SAYEEDA: I started threading at 14.


SAYEEDA: And, honestly, since then-- that first experience was definitely a little hectic, to say the least. And, honestly, just threading my facial hair is a really big peaceful experience for me now, even though it was really painful for me in the beginning. And, yeah.

MOLLY BLOOM: Nice little ritual to partake of.

SAYEEDA: Yeah, definitely.

MOLLY BLOOM: Nice end to the day. Totally get it.

SAYEEDA: Mm-hmm.

MOLLY BLOOM: So do you have any advice for our debaters today?

SAYEEDA: Be yourself. [CHUCKLES] Expand on the points that you believe that you really can. And just try not to bring up points that are just jargon, if you know what I mean.

MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent advice. Have you debated yourself before?

SAYEEDA: I have, actually. I've debated last year in many different tournaments. I got first place speaker at my first UFC Tournament.


SAYEEDA: I got a fifth-place team award. And ever since then, I've been just practicing my skills before the next tournament, which is going to be in October.

MOLLY BLOOM: Incredible, so we have a debate expert here today to judge. Thank you for being here. So will Sayeeda side with Marc or Tracy? There's no telling. Sayeeda, are you ready to judge today's debate?

SAYEEDA: I am more than ready.

MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] Well, before we dive in, let's review the rules of the game.


Every debate consists of four rounds of argumentation, the declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge Sayeeda will award points to the team that impresses her the most. But she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.

Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website and vote for whichever team you think won. All right, Marc, Tracy, and Sayeeda, are you ready?

TRACY MUMFORD: Ready, steady.

MARC SANCHEZ: Tapatio, yeah.

SAYEEDA: I am ready to go.

MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Then it's time for the--

ANNOUNCER: Declaration of greatness.

SAYEEDA: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin, and Marc you're up first. Tell us what makes hot sauce sizzle.

MARC SANCHEZ: OK. So I put hot sauce on everything, tacos, burritos, nachos, of course. Pizza, pasta, lasagna, always, grazie. Eggs, avocado, toast, and coffee? Oh, yeah. Well, I haven't tried it in coffee, but I think a couple of drops might be great. You see, for me, every meal is enhanced by hot sauce.


Hot sauce makes good meals great and saves bad ones. Next time you're faced with a bowl of bland chicken soup, add a few drops of hot sauce. Pow! Instant flavor bomb.


And that's the thing about hot sauce, it's not just the heat, it's the taste, too. Peppery, savory, warm, and inviting. And it goes from mild, like a few drops of Tabasco--


MARC SANCHEZ: --to wild, like a sauce made with a Carolina Reaper. That's the current world record holder for the hottest pepper.


MARC SANCHEZ: [CHUCKLES] I should probably introduce you to my pal Wilbur Scoville. He's the guy who's been shouting over there. Come on over, Wilbur.



MARC SANCHEZ: You probably don't need that megaphone anymore. We're all right here.




WILBUR SCOVILLE: As a pharmacist from the early part of the 1900s, I'm not used to such a fancy-speaking trumpet.

MARC SANCHEZ: OK, fair point. Hey, Wilbur, can you fill us in on those numbers you were calling out?

WILBUR SCOVILLE: Indeed! I figured out a way to measure the amount of capsaicin in peppers.

MARC SANCHEZ: Ah, capsaicin, the chemical compound found in just about every pepper and the thing that makes hot sauce spicy.

WILBUR SCOVILLE: Precisely, and I called this discovery, the Scoville Scale. SHU stands for Scoville Heat Unit. So 2,500 SHU is pretty mild. And 2 million SHU might feel like your mouth is going to burn off your body.


WILBUR SCOVILLE: Hot, actually. [LAUGHS] Thanks to my scale, you can always find a sauce that's the right level of spice for you.


MARC SANCHEZ: Let's listen to some common reactions to hot sauce.

SPEAKER: Mm, spicy, spicy.

SPEAKER: Mm, so flavorful.

SPEAKER: More, please?

SPEAKER: Ooh, that's hot!

MARC SANCHEZ: Now let's listen to what our lactose-intolerant friends sound like when they encounter butter.


SPEAKER: Oh, no, butter!

SPEAKER: Oh, I got to find a bathroom!


SPEAKER: Ew, my stomach does not feel good.


MARC SANCHEZ: According to the US Department of Health and Human Services around 68% of people in the world lack the ability to absorb lactose, a sugar found in dairy products like butter. This can sometimes lead a person to being lactose intolerant, which means that eating stuff with butter in it could leave them bloated, gassy, and with a case of diarrhea. No thanks. Meanwhile, there's been study after study that shows the potential benefits of hot sauce.


Remember capsaicin? That stuff that makes hot sauce spicy? Well, some scientists think it could help various conditions of people with diabetes.

Researchers have also shown that it can give us a boost of chemicals in the body called endorphins. These can help reduce stress and pain. And in 2015, a study in China suggested that people who consistently ate spicy foods like hot sauce reduced their risk of death by 14% over those who didn't.

Hot sauce is so hot right now that even other foods and celebrities are trying to cash in on its appeal. How about a little Tapatio-flavored ramen? OK. Maybe some sriracha spice nuts? You bet you. Or maybe a Dunkin' jelly donut covered in Frank's RedHot.

That, my friends, is a real item, just like the bottles of Rick and Morty Hot Sauce, Ed Sheeran hot sauce, and the hot sauce from the band Korn. They all have their own brands. And remind me, who is it that says she always keeps hot sauce in her bag? Oh, yeah, it's none other than Beyoncé.



MARC SANCHEZ: Phew, all this hot sauce talk is making me a little hungry. Let me just put a few dabs of Tapatio on this taco that's been staring at me. [SIGHS] There we go.


[GROANS] Oh, yeah. Clearly, hot sauce is hot stuff. So do yourself a favor and put some smash boom zest into your life.


MOLLY BLOOM: Invoking Beyoncé? Marc Sanchez coming in with the hot takes for hot sauce, incredible. Sayeeda, what stood out to you about Marc's declaration of greatness?

SAYEEDA: Beyoncé always having hot sauce in her bag, that was an amazing point.


MARC SANCHEZ: Queen bee.

MOLLY BLOOM: I mean, if Beyoncé says-- I mean, what are we supposed to do with that? Can't argue with Beyoncé.

SAYEEDA: You can't.

MARC SANCHEZ: It's illegal. I think it's illegal.

MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] What else stood out to you, Sayeeda?

SAYEEDA: I think his statistics, that was amazing. I really think that he did his research on this. And that Chinese report, especially, that was really amazing.

MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Well, Tracy, it's time for your rebuttal. Tell us why hot sauce is more like not sauce.


MOLLY BLOOM: You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.


TRACY MUMFORD: I think you mean this is my rebutter, that's right.


TRACY MUMFORD: Oh, my gosh. Let me just pick up some phrases that you were using. Mouth burning off your body.


TRACY MUMFORD: Yeah, so you actually come with a warning, that's, ooh, not my favorite thing when it comes to eating food. I just don't want to get scorched on accident. And here, let's face it, hot sauce, it's a nice decoration, but what does it go on?

It goes on other foods. You know what butter goes in? All of those foods. So--


TRACY MUMFORD: --I'm not exactly going to eat it without butter.

MOLLY BLOOM: --time. Excellent.

MARC SANCHEZ: There's flavors of hot sauce for everybody. It's not all just burn your face off. Some people like that.

TRACY MUMFORD: Not all just burn your face off. What a selling point.

MOLLY BLOOM: [CHUCKLES] All right, excellent work both of you. But, Tracy, it's now your turn. Tell us why butter is better.

TRACY MUMFORD: Hey, everybody. I am here to tell you about butter.


Oh, my gosh, whoa, I-- what is ha--


I do not know what's going on, but--


I mean, this is cra-- are you guys hearing this?


I mean, I was just trying to talk about butt--


I don't know what's going on, but--

SPEAKER: You-- you must go!

TRACY MUMFORD: Hey, shadowy figure, I was just trying to tell everybody about butter.

SPEAKER: You must go!

TRACY MUMFORD: Wh-- what exactly is happening here?

SPEAKER: You've come to a dark place, a place without butter.



SPEAKER: That is the sound of spreading your knife across toast with no butter.

MARC SANCHEZ: Toast with no butter? Is that even edible?

SPEAKER: It's all we have here. It is bad here, it is dry. We cry non-buttery tears. Our cookies crumble, our cakes are flat and without flavor. Oh, I miss the flavors.

TRACY MUMFORD: Why don't you have butter?

SPEAKER: Because in this universe, it was never invented.



TRACY MUMFORD: Whoo! Wow! OK, whoo! That was-- [SHIVERS] Just fell into an alternate universe there for a moment. And, yikes, I am super glad to live in this world where we have that glorious, glowing, multiple-spreadable, literal gold butter. It's not totally clear how we stumbled across the best ingredient in the world, but the best guess is that 8,000 or 9,000 years ago before there were cities or towns, and humans were still moving from place to place a lot, they had a really lucky break.


They were using animals like goats or sheep to carry bags of milk. And the milk got so jostled and tossed around while the animals were walking up and down hills that it turned into butter. It was love at first bite because that's how butter is made, by churning or stirring milk really hard for a long time until you actually change the milk's physical state. The fat molecules all start to cling to each other and clump up to make butter. If there is a food that you love, there is probably butter in it. If not, it's like fruit.


Butter is a key ingredient in cookies, cakes, waffles, caramel, fudge. And it's not just sweet foods. Crackers, buttered noodles, butter chicken, mashed potatoes, grilled cheese, macaroni and cheese. It's on burgers, it's on sandwiches. Is it in apples? No, but apple pie is drenched in butter. There's even a whole bunch of butter alternatives for our non-dairy-eating friends because everyone has to have it. And it's not just taste, it's science. Butter has special chemical properties that other ingredients just don't have that make it every chef's best friend.

BAKER: Oh, isn't that so true? Flavors and spices bind right with the fat molecules in butter and carry them into the dish and onto your tongue. And butter doesn't stop there, oh, no.

When I bake pastries or treats, the moisture in butter turns into steam and makes air pockets. That makes croissants flaky and layered and it keeps my baked goods moist. Mwah! Perfection.

MARC SANCHEZ: You heard her. You want dry cake that's like sandpaper on your tongue for your birthday? I don't think so. Butter is just basically the magic ingredient. And butter is not just for eating. You can use it to grease a creaky door.


You can use it as a moisturizer.


For real. People do this for their skin or their hair.

SPEAKER: Speaking of hair, [CHUCKLES] I accidentally got some gum in mine. Can butter help?

MARC SANCHEZ: Peanut butter can, it's excellent at getting gum out without scissors. Or we could try putting hot sauce in your hair?

SPEAKER: Nope, nope. I don't want scalp fire. No, thank you.


MARC SANCHEZ: And butter is art. There are actual living sculptors who don't work with clay or stone but with butter. At the Iowa State Fair, there is a competition where they make life-size sculptures of tigers, motorcycles, famous athletes all out of butter.

So that's quite the spread of reasons, if you will, that butter is essential. It was a happy accident that we have been perfecting for thousands of years. It's given us every tasty food we have ever loved. And we've turned it into art. What could be butter?

MOLLY BLOOM: A very smooth and delicious argument there for butter. Sayeeda, what stood out to you about Tracy's declaration of greatness?

SAYEEDA: Honestly, the multiple uses. I mean, the living sculptors, making actual things out of butter, simply butter.


SAYEEDA: People using butter as moisturizer for their body. People using peanut butter to get gum out of their hair, that was an amazing point. I mean, it's just multiple uses for one thing that was meant as food.

MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Well, Marc, it's time for your rebuttal. Please, tell us why butter is just a greasy mess. You've got 30 seconds. And your time starts now.

MARC SANCHEZ: OK, Tracy is treading a pretty slippery slope here.


MARC SANCHEZ: Butter sculptures? That stuff actually gets reused every year. And they have to keep it cold all year round in freezers giving off greenhouse gases. Butter contributes to climate change. There you go.

Have you ever heard of avocado toast? It's very, very hip and popular and delicious and better for you than butter. Margarine, yeah, that makes me grin. Butter substitute, guess what? It doesn't make me toot.


TRACY MUMFORD: Also, what's wrong with fruit? What's wrong with fruit?

MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] I like how he just started rhyming at the end.


TRACY MUMFORD: I just want to point out that you brought up gassy-toot farting in everything you said. And let's just--


--it's one card you could play, but have some variety.

MARC SANCHEZ: Oh, variety is the spice of life, my friend. The spice of life just like hot sauce.

TRACY MUMFORD: Toot, toot.


MARC SANCHEZ: Hey, everybody toots. I'm going to own it.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sayeeda, it is time to award some points. Please, give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best. And one point to the rebuttal that won you over.

You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic to die for? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.

Both points could go to the same person, or each person could get a point. Entirely up to you and entirely subjective. Have you made your decision?

SAYEEDA: Yes, I have.


MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Long-time listeners of Smash Boom Best, they'll know this is a rematch today.


MOLLY BLOOM: Tracy and Marc faced off in one of the oldest and most popular debates on Smash Boom Best, tacos versus pizza. So this is a really important and momentous occasion in Smash Boom Best history.

MARC SANCHEZ: [CHUCKLES] It's really important for one of us.

TRACY MUMFORD: You came back to get burned.


You want a piece of this, again? That's what I'm saying.


MOLLY BLOOM: So Tracy and Marc, how are you two feeling so far?

TRACY MUMFORD: I just have a certain glow about me, like a golden aura.


I'm feeling good.

MARC SANCHEZ: I mean, if we're judging this on the Scoville scale, then I'd say I'm about 2.5 million Scoville heat units.


MARC SANCHEZ: That's hotter than a Carolina Reaper.



All right, everybody, butter your toast or spice up your wings.

SAYEEDA: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.

SPEAKER: You're listening to state of debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.


TODD DOUGLAS: I'm Todd Douglas, grilled cheese sandwich enthusiast. And I'm joined by--

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Taylor Lincoln, champion of backyard badminton.

TODD DOUGLAS: OK, I thought we were doing a food-themed intro. Are we doing sports? Did I miss an email?

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oh, it's a Wild Card Wednesday, buddy. Anything goes!

TODD DOUGLAS: Wow, I really should invest in a calendar. Anyway, I got a pretty tasty fallacy for you today, Tay.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Ooh, fallacies, mistakes that make an argument easy to defeat. OK, you have my attention T-Dog. Set the scene.

TODD DOUGLAS: Well, I happened to be at the deli yesterday ordering my usual supply of cheese and cold cuts, and I overheard this.



PENNY: There are so many options on the menu here. I don't even know where to start.

CASPER: You know what? I'm just going to ask the server. They'll know what the best dish is.

PENNY: I don't think you should do it. When I used to work as a server, I never knew what to say when people would ask me what I thought they should order.

CASPER: Well, that's you. I'm sure it'll be fine.

PENNY: That's the point. I'm me and you're you. The server is their own person. They don't know what you like and don't like. Don't put them on the spot like that.

CASPER: Got to say, Penny, you're acting like a bit of a doo-doo head. And I don't listen to doo-doo heads.


TAYLOR LINCOLN: Wow, that is a double-decker fallacy on rye, Todd!

TODD DOUGLAS: Absolutely, Taylor. Instead of listening to what Penny was saying, Casper just resorted to name-calling.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yeah, the ad hominem fallacy is when a debater insults their opponent instead of focusing on the argument.

TODD DOUGLAS: Yeppers, it's not a good debate tactic, and it's just plain rude.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: All this talk of food has made me hungry. You want to break for lunch?

TODD DOUGLAS: Sure do. My tummy is a grumbling for some tater salad. We'll be back with another--

TODD AND TAYLOR: --state of debate.




SPEAKER: --Boom--

SPEAKER: --Smash. Smash--

SPEAKER: --Boom--

SPEAKER: --Best.


MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.

SAYEEDA: And I'm your judge, Sayeeda.

MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this fruitful debate from Owen.

OWEN: Hi, I'm Owen from Pittsburgh, New York. My Smash Boom Best debate would be grapes versus cherries.

SAYEEDA: What a berry good idea.

MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Owen thinks should win.

SAYEEDA: And now, it's back to today's debate, hot sauce versus butter.

MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--


ANNOUNCER: Micro round.


MOLLY BLOOM: For the micro round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. Marc and Tracy's prompt was the ultimate getaway. For this challenge, each debater has to pretend they're a travel agent and sell us a vacation themed on their side.

Make us want to book a ticket now. Marc went first last time, so Tracy, you're up. Take us to your buttery, silky vacation destination.


BETINA BARBARINO BUTTERFIELD MCBUTTER: Friends, you look like you need a vacation. I'm Betina Barbarino Butterfield McButter. And you're about to slide right into paradise with our butter than the rest vacation package.

To begin, we're going to France. Because it has a ton of culture and art and history? No. We're going because they make some of the world's best butter.


BETINA BARBARINO BUTTERFIELD MCBUTTER: Say Bonjour every morning to the most buttered-up buffet of baked goods you've ever seen in your life. Croissants, chocolate croissants, brioche. You're going to be stuffing your pockets with this stuff for later.

Then we're going to blow your mind with a trip to Butterfield, the world's only butter-themed theme park known only to listeners of Smash Boom Best. They grease their roller coasters with butter, which makes them go faster than you can scream! Every ride there goes quicker, slides farther, and smells tastier than any other theme park out there. The whole thing's pretty slick.

And for the adults in your life, they can visit the nearby Field Butter Spa. The spa staff will baste and moisturize them in the butter sauna so they can smell like Thanksgiving for weeks. Other activities on the itinerary include taste testing with the world's finest chefs, visiting butter factories where you can see butter tanks bigger than a hot tub, and then settling in each night to watch a movie with, you guessed it, buttered popcorn.


For a butter vacation than the rest.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, I'm booking my tickets now. Sounds amazing.


SAYEEDA: I can smell it from here.



MARC SANCHEZ: Put me to sleep. [CHUCKLES]

MOLLY BLOOM: Marc, now it's your turn to fan the flames of your hot-orama getaway.

MARC SANCHEZ: Hello, and welcome to Spice of Life.


Are you tired of going on boring butter vacations that leave you feeling bloated and slimy? Let Spice of Life's world adventure bring your next vacation to life.



First stop, the warmth of Waikiki. Hawaiian hot sauce, a.k.a. Chili pepper water is a traditional recipe that turns any luau into a wow-wow! And in Jamaica, you'll dab a few drops of Scotch Bonnet Pepper Sauce on your jerk chicken. Pucker up in Peru, and pour some creamy Aji Amarillo onto your fried yuca.


Next, it's off to-- mm, mm, mm-- Morocco! Northern Africa is a hotbed for harissa, a fine chili paste that makes butter seem even blander.


Finally, we'll touch down in the land of spice, India, home of the tongue toaster known as the Bhut Jolokia, also known as ghost pepper.


Meanwhile, when you travel with butter, you see-- a dairy farm? I guess? Eh, who cares? See the world with hot sauce and Spice of Life. Burnt tongues, watery eyes, and the case of the yow, yow, yows have been known to occur on rare occasions and are not the responsibility of Spicy of Life or its affiliates.



MOLLY BLOOM: Despite the disclaimer, I think my taste buds are ready to book some tickets to that trip, too.

TRACY MUMFORD: I don't know. I just heard another warning.


[INAUDIBLE]. Your tongue is going to be numb by the end of that one.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sayeeda, what did you like about those two micro rounds?

SAYEEDA: I really liked the France point. I liked how it was pointed out that it makes the world's best butter, croissants, all that buttery goodness. That's amazing. And I really liked Marc's point about Northern Africa and India. About how India was the home of spices. That was an amazing point. And, yeah.

MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah, you can experience both butter and hot sauce all around the world.

TRACY MUMFORD: I'm sorry, were there any activities on Marc's trip, or--


TRACY MUMFORD: --just burning your tongue?

MARC SANCHEZ: Hot sauce is the activity. Are you kidding me?


MARC SANCHEZ: You want to go off the rails on a greased roller coaster? That is--

TRACY MUMFORD: It would not still be open if it had that problem.

MARC SANCHEZ: Well, I'm sure people have to sign an NDA or some sort of contract before they go on releasing this fictitious amusement park of any liabilities.



MARC SANCHEZ: Not in the least.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sayeeda, it is time to award a point. The criteria are totally up to you. Did someone describe a vacation that you are dying to go on? Did someone slip some facts in? Did someone make your mouth water? The criteria are totally up to you. Have you awarded your point?

SAYEEDA: I have, Molly.


MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the super stealthy--

SPEAKER: Ha-ha hoo-ha!

MOLLY BLOOM: --sneak attack. This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called Once Upon a Time.

Your mission is to tell a story about your side that ends with "happily ever after," but you have to do it in 30 seconds. Debaters, are you ready for this sneak attack? Does that make sense?



MOLLY BLOOM: All right. So Tracy went first last round, so Marc it is your turn. Let's hear your scorching story that ends with "happily ever after." And your time starts now.

MARC SANCHEZ: Once upon a time, there was a little boy, and his name was Tom Tapatio.


He lived in a town of Tapatios. And he would always venture all the way up to this beautiful hill, but he was never-- he would never go over the hill. And so, one day he was out doing what Tapations do.

And he decided, you know what? I'm going to go over that hill. And he found-- guess what?

Ms. Cholula. Yes, Mr. Tapatio and Ms. Cholula, they came together. They found true love in the world of hot sauce.




MARC SANCHEZ: --they all lived happily ever after.

MOLLY BLOOM: --time.


SAYEEDA: Aw, beautiful love story.

MOLLY BLOOM: What a beautiful fairy tale, indeed. All right, Tracy, it's your turn. Let's hear your tasty tale ending with "happily ever after." Your time starts now.

TRACY MUMFORD: Once upon a time, there was a cat. And the cat couldn't read and picked up the wrong bottle of hot sauce. The warning had scraped off.

Didn't know what he was getting himself into. Tried to make himself a fun dish he'd heard people saying this is so cool, so fun. So he had it, and his tongue was on fire.

It was off that Scoville chart. He did not know what to do. And everyone's like, oh, my gosh, we need to help this cat.

He's on fire. And so someone delivered him this perfect pastry filled with butter. And he put it on his tongue. And it calmed it right down.


It was the only thing that could possibly soothe his flaming tongue. And he was so happy after that, happily ever after.

MOLLY BLOOM: And time.

MARC SANCHEZ: Tracy, it sounds like you've been paying attention to what I'm talking about. That's great. You mentioned the Scoville scale.

TRACY MUMFORD: Yeah, everyone should treat this as a warning.


This was a warning episode about hot sauce.

MARC SANCHEZ: Yeah, I mean butter-- here's your slogan, butter is good for cats, I guess.


TRACY MUMFORD: Who-- you hate cats now? What's-- wow, OK.

MARC SANCHEZ: No, it's not that, I mean, I just don't like butter.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Sayeeda, time to award another point. Please, think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point. But don't tell us who it's going to. Again, the criteria are completely up to you. Did someone create a story that you think will become a classic told from generation to generation?


Whatever your criteria is, it's up to you. Have you made your decision?

SAYEEDA: Yes, I have, Molly.


MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, perfect, then it's time for our final round--


--the final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Tracy, it's your turn. Let's hear your six words for why butter equals bliss.

TRACY MUMFORD: Without butter, there is no joy.

MOLLY BLOOM: Ooh, OK. Nicely done. Marc, it's your turn. Give us six words on why heat equals happiness.

MARC SANCHEZ: No problem. Here we go. Tapatio, sriracha, Cholula. Oh, yeah, gotcha.


It really is all about the rhyme today for me.

SAYEEDA: Yeah, I love it. You have a rhyme in your heart.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right. So, Sayeeda, it is time to award a final point for this final six. Have you made your decision?

SAYEEDA: I have, Molly.


MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, wow. OK, so Sayeeda, tally up those points. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?

SAYEEDA: I am Molly.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, drum roll, please.


And the winner is--

SAYEEDA: Butter!



TRACY MUMFORD: Feel the burn!


MARC SANCHEZ: [GROANS] I'm sliding down this wall in defeat, oh! [SIGHS] It must be greased with butter this wall.

MOLLY BLOOM: Sayeeda, was there a moment that decided things for you?

SAYEEDA: There actually was. Tracy's vacation point was honestly amazing. Her point about France really stood out to me. She used a really wide known vacation spot.

And, honestly, it was the winning point for me. And, Marc you did an amazing job. [CHUCKLES] I don't want you to feel bad. I really loved your final six words. They were really amazing.

MARC SANCHEZ: Thank you.

TRACY MUMFORD: Marc, so hot. I was way into it. Really sizzling. Just a top-notch performance. I'm not going to lie, I'm going to put hot sauce on anything I'm going to eat today. Congratulations, Marc, on really bringing the heat.


MARC SANCHEZ: Tracy, your arguments were pretty slick today, I got to say. They were pretty slick. They were greased with goodness. And you did an amazing job. And I might want to go get a cat and feed it some butter thanks to your story.


TRACY MUMFORD: I feel like we could collaborate. We could make a spiced caramel. We could make a--

MARC SANCHEZ: Just spicy butter.

TRACY MUMFORD: --delicious dish.

MOLLY BLOOM: Absolutely.

TRACY MUMFORD: We don't have to be against each other. We can be together.

SAYEEDA: You can fry an egg with butter, put a little Tapatio on top.

MOLLY BLOOM: There we go.

SAYEEDA: Everyone's happy.

TRACY MUMFORD: Better together.



Well, that's it for today's debate battle. Sayeeda crowned butter the Smash Boom Best, but what about you?

SAYEEDA: Head to and vote to tell us who you think won.

MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On! and APM Studios.

MARC SANCHEZ: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Anna Weggel, Rose DuPont, Ruby Guthrie, and Aron Woldeslassie.

MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Jeanne Barron, with sound design by Rachel Brees.

MARC SANCHEZ: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.

TRACY MUMFORD: And we had production help from Anna Goldfield, Marc Sanchez, and Nico Gonzalez Wisler.

MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman. And the APM Studios' executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Kaufman, and Brandt Miller. Marc, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?

MARC SANCHEZ: Yeah, I would also like to give a big shout-out to Brandt Miller for being the voice of William Scoville. Also, Vicki and Coco, who helped me out with voices and lovingly put up with my hot sauce obsessions.


Also, a shout-out to the Tapatio guy and the Chalupa lady, who made it to my story. I'll see you at dinner, my boos.

MOLLY BLOOM: And Marc dressed as the Tapatio guy for Halloween one year. And it was--

MARC SANCHEZ: True story.

MOLLY BLOOM: --wonderful. Tracy, how about you? Any special shout-outs?

TRACY MUMFORD: A shout-out to everyone who's going to be buttering something up this evening. And also, a shout-out to Marc for an epic rematch.


MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent work. Do you want to give any special thanks or shout-outs, Sayeeda?

SAYEEDA: Honestly, I would like to shout Smash Boom Best itself. I mean, honestly, specifically, Aron Woldeslassie and Anna Weggel for helping me come here and sending me emails and staying in touch with me throughout this whole thing. And shout-out to you guys as well for making this such a good debate.

MOLLY BLOOM: Before we go, let's check in and see who Owen thinks should win the grapes versus cherries debate.

OWEN: I think cherries would win because they're sweet.

MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knockdown drag-out debate, head to and drop us a line. We'll be back with a new debate battle next week. Ta-ta!



[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the smash, boom best. Ooh, put you through the test. Ooh, you're the smash, boom best. Ooh, better than the rest. It's the Smash Boom Best. It's the Smash Boom Best.


TRACY MUMFORD: My gosh, Marc, you had me worried! Sweating in my seat over here.

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