Today’s debate is a moving showdown of two transit titans. It’s the ultimate battle of cables vs. steps. Get excited for Elevators vs. Escalators! Comedian, musician, writer and activist Devohn Bland is ready to push all the buttons for team Elevators, and singer, writer, actor and comedian Andrew Barbato is here to step it up for escalators! Vote below for the team YOU think won.

Also…do you have your Smarty Pass yet? Get yours today for just $4/month (or $36/year) and get bonus episodes every month, and ad-free versions of every episode of Brains On, Smash Boom Best, Moment of Um and Forever Ago. Visit to get your Smarty Pass today. As an added bonus, your Smarty Pass will grant you access to a super special debate starring Sanden and Molly!

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ANNOUNCER: From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.

CLAIRE: The show for people with big opinions.

MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom. And this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate will get you from here to there. It's an uplifting showdown of two transit titans. It's the ultimate battle of cables versus steps. Give it up for elevators versus escalators. We've got comedian, musician, writer, and activist Devohn Bland ready to up the ante for team elevators.

DEVOHN BLAND: What's up? Elevators will be elevating. Escalators just escalate. Ugh!

MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] And singer, writer, actor, and comedian Andrew Barbato is here to step it up for team escalators.

ANDREW BARBATO: Escalator riders of the world, rise up, because today, we're taking elevators all the way down.


ANDREW BARBATO: Whoa. That escalated quickly.

MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] And here to judge it all is Claire from Plano, Texas. Claire loves dogs, enjoys music and theater, and has written books. Hi, Claire.

CLAIRE: Hello, Molly.

MOLLY BLOOM: So Claire, I understand you've written a whole series of books. What is the series about?

CLAIRE: It's called the Delta Dogs series. And it's about this school where dogs go, and they get special powers. And so they live in a dog world where the dogs can talk. And they take a portal to the human world where it's all regular dogs who bark and regular people. And they fix bad situations that happen in that world.

MOLLY BLOOM: That is so cool. So I also hear that you have a YouTube channel where you sing, and your grandpa plays the drums?

CLAIRE: Yes. And I sing original songs, mostly.

MOLLY BLOOM: You are multitalented. So do you have any advice for our debaters today?

CLAIRE: Comedy, facts, bring it!

DEVOHN BLAND: That was inspirational.

MOLLY BLOOM: It was inspirational. Will Claire side with Devohn or Andrew? What a transporting question. Claire, are you ready to judge today's debate?

CLAIRE: Oh, yes. I'm so excited.

MOLLY BLOOM: Before we dive in, let's review the rules of the game. Every debate consists of four rounds of argumentation-- the declaration of greatness, the micro-round, the sneak attack, and the final six. After each round, our judge, Claire, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website,, and vote for whichever team you think won. OK. Devohn, Andrew, and Claire, are you ready?

CLAIRE: Oh, yes.

DEVOHN BLAND: You know it.

ANDREW BARBATO: Oh yeah, baby. I'm here to bring it with comedy and facts.

DEVOHN BLAND: I'm also ready to do that as well.

MOLLY BLOOM: [GIGGLES] Then it's time for the--

ANNOUNCER: Declaration of greatness.

MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And Devohn, you're up first. Tell us what makes elevators the height of cool.

DEVOHN BLAND: When I was a kid, I lived on the very top floor of a tall building in Minneapolis. To get all the way to our apartment, you either had to struggle up 12 flights of stairs, carrying backpacks, bags of groceries, you name it, or you could take the elevator.



Two elevators went up and down every day helping hundreds of folks get where they needed to go. Us kids would play in the hallway right outside of the elevators. And lots of times, when the doors opened, one of our family members or neighbors would step out and say hi.

Elevators seemed like a magic portal. It felt like they could take me anywhere-- to my friend Ibrahim's apartment, downstairs to the mail room, or even to a special little courtyard in my building. The possibilities seemed endless, and my fascination with these incredible machines has continued to grow over the years.


So hop aboard while we take a journey with my friend Ellie the Elevator.

ELLIE: Oh, hey, Devohn. Long time no see.

DEVOHN BLAND: Hey, buddy. How's elevator life?

ELLIE: Oh, you know. I've had some ups and downs. [GIGGLES] Really could use a friend to uplift me. [SNORTS] You know, bring me to new heights. [CACKLES] Come on. This is some of my best stuff.

DEVOHN BLAND: Yes, Ellie. Very funny. Hey, can you take us to the second floor?

ELLIE: Sure thing. I think we're on the same level here. [LAUGHS] Still got it. Going up!

DEVOHN BLAND: OK. So the first thing that's awesome about elevators, they're super easy to use.

ELLIE: Yeah. No more exhausting yourself going up several rows of stairs. Now you can get where you need to go with just a push of a magical button.

DEVOHN BLAND: Right. Whether you have a wheelchair, walker, baby stroller, or bicycle, an elevator takes you where you want to go. I mean, have you ever tried taking a stroller on an escalator? Seriously? It looks so hard, it should be an Olympic sport. And elevators aren't just super helpful for moving people. They're also great for moving your stuff.

ELLIE: Yeah. Can you imagine trying to move out of your apartment on an escalator? You'd be riding up and down all day carrying heavy boxes and couches. Ugh! With an elevator, you just load it up once, and you're done!

DEVOHN BLAND: Great point, Ellie. Why don't we head to the next floor?

ELLIE: I thought you'd never ask. Going up!


DEVOHN BLAND: Elevators are also super safe. That's because back in the 1800s, an inventor named Elisha Otis created the safety elevator. It had special spring-powered brakes that kicked in if the elevator rope broke. Otis showcased it in 1853 at the New York World's Fair.

ELISHA OTIS: Feast your eyes on the amazing elevator.


Watch as I ride all the way to the tippy top. And now, I'll have my assistant cut the rope holding it.


Behold, the elevator only falls a couple of inches before making a full stop.


ELLIE: Not to toot my own horn, but my great, great, great, great, great-grand-elevator helped Elisha Otis change history. Toot toot. Hey, Devohn, how about we go up one more floor?


DEVOHN BLAND: Even today, elevators are still an engineering marvel. Traction elevators in very tall skyscrapers can rise hundreds of feet in the air using special cable systems and weights. And some even travel up to 2,000 feet per minute. Plus, elevators of all kinds have helped humans build taller buildings.

For centuries, buildings could only be as tall as humans could walk or climb before they get tired, which meant most only went up about five or six stories. But elevators changed all that. Imagine if the Empire State Building was only six stories tall.

ELLIE: Yeah. If you ask me, it seems like the safest, easiest to use, and fastest team here is team elevators. I mean, do you know how many pairs of Crocs escalators destroy each year? I, for one, would never hurt a Croc.

DEVOHN BLAND: You like Crocs?

ELLIE: I love all kinds of shoes. They might be beneath me-- ha-- but I'm still down-to-earth, OK?

DEVOHN BLAND: Good one, Ellie. Good one.


MOLLY BLOOM: Elevator's a friend to all, taking us to great heights. Claire, what stood out to you about Devohn's declaration of greatness?

CLAIRE: I loved all the elevator puns. That was awesome.

MOLLY BLOOM: Great elevator puns.


MOLLY BLOOM: Now, Andrew, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why elevators belong in the basement. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.

ANDREW BARBATO: All right, before I really dive in, I need to just dispel this myth about Crocs. You know what? I'm not going to go so low as to say elevators are dangerous. I don't want to say that. Have scary things happened on elevators? Yes! I'm not going to mention that. And I think we need to make sure that we're not going to say that Crocs are being destroyed by escalators. It's just not true. Moving forward, let's take us all the way back. Remember when you and your friend Ibrahim would see people come in and out of the elevator?

MOLLY BLOOM: And time. Oh my gosh.


MOLLY BLOOM: You're just getting started.

DEVOHN BLAND: Escalators, so bad. Elevators, so good.


MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Andrew, I know you have a lot more to say.


MOLLY BLOOM: Just the tip of the iceberg there. Please tell us why escalators always rise to the occasion.

ANDREW BARBATO: Hey there! You caught me walking through the mall on my way to the pet store. I need another peacock since my current one refuses to watch Matlock alone.

MAN 1: Out of my way! Out of my way! I'm going to be late.

ANDREW BARBATO: Whoa. What's the big rush?

MAN 1: Ugh. I'm late. I'm headed to Wally Wichita's watch workshop on the fifth floor, but they're closing in five minutes. Uh, which is faster? The elevator or the escalator?

ANDREW BARBATO: Well, now let's see. The elevator is a fart-filled horror box full of terrible music and germy buttons that might stop at every floor. The escalator is a delightful, airy, perpetually moving staircase that you can run up as fast as you want. So yeah, if you want to have a happy and successful life, definitely take the escalator.

MAN 1: Hoo, good idea. Thanks.

DEVOHN BLAND: Actually, it was a great idea, because when it comes to getting around, the escalator is always a step above the rest.


[LAUGHS] See what I did there? But seriously, escalators just make more sense. Unlike elevators, which can only move a few people at a time, an escalator can move dozens, if not hundreds, of people that same distance much more efficiently. That's why we tend to see escalators at sporting events, transit hubs, and shopping centers. Can you imagine going to any of these places if they didn't have escalators?


MAN 2: Yikes. What's with the massive line?

WOMAN 1: Oh, you didn't hear? This baseball stadium doesn't have any escalators, only elevators.

MAN 2: But there's only 10 elevators and at least 10,000 people here! We're going to miss the game!



ANDREW BARBATO: Wow. 10,000 people and just 10 elevators? That would take forever! If that imaginary stadium had escalators, they could move thousands of people at a time with little wait. In Hong Kong, there's an escalator system that stretches nearly half a mile and moves 78,000 people every day! Talk about efficiency.

Elevators, on the other hand, are the total opposite of efficiency. I mean, just look at them. Usually, you can only fit a few people inside at a time. And when you have stops on multiple floors, they can take forever. You want to know what's faster than taking an elevator? A turtle swimming in jelly, a sloth doing an impression of a snail. Even stairs are faster.

Researchers at one Canadian hospital found that doctors who took the stairs instead of an elevator saved an average of 15 minutes of their workday. 15 minutes! Imagine what helpful deeds a doctor could do with all that extra time.


DOCTOR 1: Doctor, this man needs emergency butt surgery. Should we take the elevator?

DOCTOR 2: Not if we want his butt to live, Doctor! Take the stairs stat. Or better yet, the escalator.


ANDREW BARBATO: Those doctors had the right idea, because you know what's even faster than stairs? Escalators! On average, escalators move at about one foot per second. Not only that. When escalators are broken, they're still faster than elevators, because when escalators are broken, they just become stairs. That's right. Escalators are so incredible that even when they break down, they still work. You know what an elevator becomes when it breaks down? A tiny box that forces you to make small talk.


MAN 3: So, um, you live in the city?

WOMAN 2: Yep.

MAN 3: You, um, like the weather?

WOMAN 2: Yeah-huh.

MAN 3: You like the weather in the city?

WOMAN 2: [SIGHS] I should have taken the escalator.

ANDREW BARBATO: Wasn't that awful? That happens every day on an elevator. Listen, wherever you're going, I want you and everyone you know to get there quickly, safely, and efficiently. And that means taking a ride on a machine that never stops, keeps things smooth, and always gets you where you need to go. That means taking an escalator.


MOLLY BLOOM: Soothing sounds of an escalator?

ANDREW BARBATO: Oh, because it can be soothing as well. There's so many things that it can be.

MOLLY BLOOM: Escalators saving us all from small talk. Claire, what stood out to you about Andrew's declaration of greatness?

CLAIRE: Well, I really like the puns, again. You really brought the puns. I like that. I really thought the Hong Kong escalator was really interesting because that's a lot of people.

MOLLY BLOOM: Mm, very true. OK, Devohn, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why escalators don't move you at all. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.

DEVOHN BLAND: Well, first of all my dear friend Ellie the Elevator is way faster than a turtle in jelly. Also, a turtle could not take an escalator without maybe being in danger of harming its shell. So there's that. Escalators cause injuries. Escalators do turn into stairs. And guess what. Not everybody can take stairs. Also, taking stairs is very exhausting. I don't want to go up something and then get exhausted. Elevators are amazing. Also, Hong Kong is in China. And one of the fastest elevators is also in China. That's probably going faster than--

MOLLY BLOOM: And time.

DEVOHN BLAND: --the escalator.

ANDREW BARBATO: Molly, I just need to say again. Devohn, whom I, on a personal level, adore, has started once again saying that a turtle is going to be harmed by an escalator.

DEVOHN BLAND: It's just a fact.

ANDREW BARBATO: You know-- no. You know, I'm not going to go there. We're not going to mud-sling.

MOLLY BLOOM: Mm, OK, good. We're going to keep it clean today. Claire, our debaters Andrew and Devohn have given you a lot to think about, but it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic sheer perfection? Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to. Have you made your decision?

CLAIRE: I have. It was really hard, though.


MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent. Andrew, Devohn, how are you two feeling so far?

DEVOHN BLAND: I feel pretty good. I think all things are looking up.


ANDREW BARBATO: Yeah. I'm rising to new heights. My passion is ascending off of the charts. I mean, there's a lot going on.

MOLLY BLOOM: OK. It's time for a quick break. Go get your steps and lift your spirits.

CLAIRE: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.

ANNOUNCER: You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.

TODD DOUGLAS: Ahoy, debatemates. It's debate fanatic and captain of the [? Dog-on ?] Great cruise ship, Todd Douglas. And please put your paws together for Taylor Lincoln.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Ahoy, Todd! I still can't believe we managed to land this gig running a cruise ship for dogs.

TODD DOUGLAS: Anything is paw-ssible when you put your mind to it, Tay-Tay.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Right you are, T-Doug. And it just so happens that I have a real tail wagger of a logical fallacy today.

TODD DOUGLAS: A logical fallacy is a weak sauce argument that makes a debate easy to disprove.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: It all started when one of our four-legged friends witnessed this co-worker spat.


CATH: Who's the good girl? That's right. Ella's a good girl.

JEN: Oh, great, Cath. Another dog in the office?

CATH: Wait a sec, Jen. You don't like dogs? Ever since the law offices of Buyers, [? Buyers, ?] and Sellers started allowing us to bring our well-behaved pooches to work, the mood has really lightened up around here.

JEN: Sure, but what next? First, it's dogs. Next, cats. Then orangutans and hippos? By this time next year, we could start charging people to visit the Buyers, [? Buyers, ?] and Sellers Zoo.


TAYLOR LINCOLN: Bow-wow-wow. Jen's argument is pretty "ruff." Looks like we've got a slippery sloped fallacy on our hands.

TODD DOUGLAS: Yeah. Just because their workplace allows dogs doesn't mean all kinds of animals will be allowed in. That kind of slippery thinking might get Jen sent to the dog house. While the cruise ship is about to dock, can you prepare our canine companions?

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Aye aye, Captain. Attention, poochies. Get ready for an absolute treat. We're about to dock at Fetch Island where rope toys are plentiful, and there are two tennis balls for each and every one of you. Now go get 'em!

TODD DOUGLAS: We'll see you next time on--

TODD AND TAYLOR: State of Debate.


SPEAKER 1: Best.

SPEAKER 2: Boom.

SPEAKER 3: Smash. Smash.

SPEAKER 2: Boom.

SPEAKER 1: Best.

MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.

CLAIRE: And I'm your judge, Claire.

MOLLY BLOOM: We love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this fulfilling debate idea from Marcella.

MARCELLA: My debate idea is sushi versus pizza.

CLAIRE: What a delicious way to victory.

MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Marcella thinks should win.

CLAIRE: And now it's back to our debate, elevators versus escalators.

MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--

ANNOUNCER: Micro-round.


MOLLY BLOOM: For the micro-round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Devohn and Andrew, the prompt was holiday song. Each side had to imagine there's a holiday devoted to their side. Then we asked them to sing us a song celebrating that holiday. Devohn went first last time, so Andrew, you're up. Escalate this debate with your holiday song.


ANDREW BARBATO: This song goes out to all the people out there who believe correctly that escalators are superior to elevators.

(SINGING) If you want to get somewhere above you, this holiday, you can't ignore. It's the greatest gift when you need a lift, helping us ascend to our floor. So stand up. Time to celebrate as your body escalates.

Taking the view as you ascend. Then safely step up while you say, Happy Escalator Day. Taking the view as you ascend. Then safely step off while you say, Happy Escalator Day.


MOLLY BLOOM: Holy cow.

CLAIRE: Oh my gosh.


CLAIRE: I was dancing.

MOLLY BLOOM: --certified bop for escalators.

ANDREW BARBATO: Thank you. And actually, I do want to just say that, Claire, your grandpa was playing the drums on that track.



MOLLY BLOOM: That was amazing. Devohn, now it's your turn to raise the bar with your song.


DEVOHN BLAND: (SINGING) Happy Elevator Day. We're going up, up, up and going to celebrate. We're going down, down, down, dancing on the floor. Up, down, up, down, time to cheer and roar 'cause there ain't no day as good as Elevator Day. Na-na, na-na. Also, there's cake. Well, I'm going to an elevator party on the very top floor. Na-na, na-na, sha, sha, na-na-na.

I'm going to take an elevator before I get to the door. Da-da-ra. Da-da-ra-ra. I've got gifts and giggles and holiday cheer. Get out of the lift, see friends near and dear. 'Cause there ain't no day as good as Elevator Day. Na-na, na-na. And did I mention there's cake?


MOLLY BLOOM: Oh my gosh.


MOLLY BLOOM: Y'all, another amazing song. How are you ever going to award points for this round, Claire? I have no idea.

CLAIRE: One song had more of a tune. And then the other song was funnier. So-- [LAUGHS]

MOLLY BLOOM: It's true. I mean, they both have a lot going for them. Both make me want to celebrate the holiday. It's a tough decision. But Claire, it is time to award a point. The criteria are completely up to you. Did someone make a song that's going to be stuck in your head? Did someone really sell their holiday? Did someone make you tap your toes? Did someone make you dance in your seat? Whatever the criteria are, they're up to you. Have you made your decision, Claire?

CLAIRE: Yes, I have.


MOLLY BLOOM: All right. It's time for our third round, the super stealthy--


ANNOUNCER: Sneak attack.

MOLLY BLOOM: This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's sneak attack is called "You know what they say." Each debater has to come up with two sayings, one for their side and one for the opposing side, and tell us what they mean. In case you need a refresher, these kind of sayings might be something like, "No use crying over spilled milk," "Don't throw stones in glass houses," "An apple a day keeps the doctor away."


MOLLY BLOOM: Debaters, does this make sense?

DEVOHN BLAND: This makes sense. Yeah.

ANDREW BARBATO: I think it does.

MOLLY BLOOM: So Devohn, we're going to start with you. Please tell us your saying that raises up elevators.

DEVOHN BLAND: Ah, you know, if you're too tired to take the stairs, just take an elevator. It's one button.

MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS] You know what they always say.

DEVOHN BLAND: You know what they always-- you know.

MOLLY BLOOM: If you're too tired to take the stairs, take the elevator. It's one button.

DEVOHN BLAND: It's one button.

MOLLY BLOOM: They always say that. All right, Andrew. It is your turn. Please heighten the stakes with your escalator adage.

ANDREW BARBATO: Oh gosh, I think I'll just go with the famous saying that goes something like this, exactly like this. Oh man, oh man. Escalator? Yep, I did it again.


MOLLY BLOOM: They do always say that. Amazing.

ANDREW BARBATO: Yeah. That's the one.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Devohn. Now we would like to hear your idiom or adage that is going against escalators.

DEVOHN BLAND: Escalators, why kill the Croc?


MOLLY BLOOM: Why kill the Croc?

DEVOHN BLAND: Why kill the Croc?

MOLLY BLOOM: You're always saying that. All right, Andrew. It's your turn. Please give us your saying against elevators.

ANDREW BARBATO: All right. Well, there's a lot that I would like to say right now, but I'm just going to go with the saying, the famous saying that I hear all the time, all the time about elevators. And it's something like this. It goes, oh, what's that? Uh, elevator? More like, no way! Absolutely not! That's a no for me, y'all.


CLAIRE: My gosh.

MOLLY BLOOM: I have heard that saying so many times.

DEVOHN BLAND: Oh, wow. That's a new one for me.

ANDREW BARBATO: Yeah, it's catching on.

MOLLY BLOOM: It is catching on. Claire, it is time for you to award a point. Think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point, but don't tell us who it's going to. Have you made your decision?



MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect. Then it's time for our final around.

ANNOUNCER: The final six.

MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. Andrew, let's hear your six words to move you up to victory.


Burst out the box. Escalators, whee!


CLAIRE: Oh my gosh.

MOLLY BLOOM: I love that, took me on a journey. OK, Devohn. It's your turn. Give us your six elevated words.

DEVOHN BLAND: OK, yeah. I've thought a lot about this. Elevators go fast. Escalators kill Crocs.


ANDREW BARBATO: Oh my goodness!

DEVOHN BLAND: Look it up.

MOLLY BLOOM: Did you lose a Croc to an escalator once?

DEVOHN BLAND: I know someone who did.


DEVOHN BLAND: It's feeling personal. It is feeling very personal.

MOLLY BLOOM: It's time for revenge, it's sounding like. All right, Claire. It is time for you to award a final point for the final six. Have you made your decision?



MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Are you ready to crown one team the Smash Boom Best?

CLAIRE: I am indeed.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right. Drum roll please.


And the winner is--

CLAIRE: Escalators!



ANDREW BARBATO: Oh! Oh my gosh. Excuse me. I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh. Whoa. I have to just-- I'm wearing Crocs right now that haven't been destroyed. And I just-- wow. I'm so excited. Thank you so much. This is a huge honor for me and for my wardrobe filled with Crocs.


I couldn't be happier.

MOLLY BLOOM: So Claire, was there a moment that really sealed the deal for escalators?

CLAIRE: Well, I think that song really spoke to me because, you know, good tune, and I was also dancing to it. It had facts in it. It was just great. I loved it.

MOLLY BLOOM: Amazing work, Andrew. Well done.

ANDREW BARBATO: Devohn, it's been a journey here. But what I will take away from this experience is the story and journey you took me on with that song. I cannot stop thinking about it. Your song brought me so much joy.


ANDREW BARBATO: I want to go to the roof and eat the cake. I can't get enough of it, so thank you for bringing that into my life.


DEVOHN BLAND: Anytime, anytime. It's a national holiday. Andrew, you were very energetic, and it was incredible. Also, I've got nothing against escalators. It's more of the Crocs thing. But you also took us on a journey. And I just like getting places fast.

MOLLY BLOOM: Mm-hmm. And [? how. ?] That's it for today's debate battle. Claire crowned escalators the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?

CLAIRE: Head to and vote to tell us who you think won.

MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios.

DEVOHN BLAND: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Hans Buetow, Anna Weggel, and Aron Woldeslassie.

MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Alex Simpson and Bruce [? Faulkner ?] with sound design by Hans Buetow and Rachel Brees.

ANDREW BARBATO: Our editors are Shahla Farzan and Sanden Totten.

DEVOHN BLAND: And we had production help from Rosie duPont, Anna Goldfield, Ruby Guthrie, Marc Sanchez, and Nico Gonzalez Wisler.

MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Pearlman. And the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman. Devohn, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?

DEVOHN BLAND: I would like to give a big shout out to Wikipedia, my good friend Aron Woldeslassie who told me about this, and also my girlfriend. If you listen to this, I love you.

MOLLY BLOOM: Aw. Andrew, how about you? Any special shout-outs?

ANDREW BARBATO: I would love to give a shout out to the late great legend Chita Rivera as well as my therapist, Eli.

MOLLY BLOOM: Thanks, Eli. And how about you, Claire? Any special thanks or shout-outs?

CLAIRE: Shout-out to my parents and my sister, Grace, and all my friends, especially [? Carys ?] who prefers stairs to either of these two.


DEVOHN BLAND: Two weeks in a row. Two weeks in a row.


MOLLY BLOOM: Before we go, let's check in and see who Marcella thinks should win this sushi versus pizza debate.

MARCELLA: I think sushi should win because it is bite-sized, colorful, and delicious.

MOLLY BLOOM: Great reasoning. If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock down, drag out debate, head to and drop us a line. And make sure to subscribe to Brains On Universe on YouTube where you can watch animated versions of some of our favorite episodes. We'll be back with a new Smash Boom Best debate battle next week.

DEVOHN BLAND: Have a good day.

ANDREW BARBATO: I'm going to miss you. Goodbye!

SINGERS: (SINGING) Oh. Yeah, the Smash Boom Best. Oh. Put it through the test. Oh. Yeah, the Smash Boom Best. Oh. Better than the rest. It's a Smash Boom Best. It's a Smash Boom Best.

MOLLY BLOOM: Those songs, y'all. Oh my gosh.


ANDREW BARBATO: What a joy. Great job, everyone.

DEVOHN BLAND: That was incredible.

ANDREW BARBATO: You crushed it.

MOLLY BLOOM: So good. So good.

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