Goats vs. Boa Constrictors

WOMAN: From the Brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.

CALLISTA: The show for people with big opinions.

MOLLY BLOOM: Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together, and ask you to decide which one is best. Today's debate pairs a nimble climber with a silent slitherer. It's goats versus boa constrictors. Radiolab co-host and science historian, Latif Nasser, is here to give us the goods for Team Goats.

LATIF NASSER: (SINGING) Who let the goats out?

Who, who, who, who?

MOLLY BLOOM: And science TV personality and host of the podcast Ologies and Smologies, Alie Ward, is here to bring the squeeze for Team Boa Constrictors.

ALIE WARD: Quiet, cunning, experts at hugging, it's boa or bust.

MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]

And here to judge it all is Callista from Atlanta, Georgia. Callista loves animals, especially predators, is super crafty with a hot glue gun, and loves to lead her siblings on imaginative adventures in the backyard. Hi, Callista.

CALLISTA: Hi, Molly.

MOLLY BLOOM: So, Callista, what kind of predators are your favorite?

CALLISTA: I like big cats, especially lions. They're just cool. I like that they're bigger and tougher.

MOLLY BLOOM: Do you think your heart can be opened to a non-predator in the debate today? Can you put your predator love aside for a wee bit.

CALLISTA: Definitely.

MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. So what are some of your favorite crafts that you've used a hot glue gun on?

CALLISTA: I took Altoids containers, and I put a bunch of rhinestones on them and gave them as little trinket boxes to my siblings for Christmas.

MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, that is so sweet. How many siblings do you have?

CALLISTA: Not including me, I have four.

MOLLY BLOOM: OK, so there's five of you?

CALLISTA: Yeah.

MOLLY BLOOM: You're leading adventures. You're giving them presents. That's really sweet. So, do you have any advice for our debaters today?

CALLISTA: Have fun.

MOLLY BLOOM: Excellent advice. Well, Callista side with Latif or Alie? Only time will tell. But first--

CALLISTA: Smash Boom Best is a non-profit public radio program.

MOLLY BLOOM: Which means we rely on support from our listeners to keep the show going. There are lots of ways you can support the show.

CALLISTA: You can donate, become a Smarty Pass subscriber, or buy our merch.

MOLLY BLOOM: Like a Smash Boom Best hoodie, pencil pouch, or keychain.

CALLISTA: Head to smashboom.org to show your support. Thanks.

MOLLY BLOOM: Now, on to the rules. Every debate consists of four rounds-- the Declaration of Greatness, the Micro Round, the Sneak Attack, and the Final Six. After each round, our judge, Callista, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate. Listeners, we want you to judge, too. Mark down your points as you listen. At the end of the show, head to our website, smashboom.org, and vote for whichever team you think won. OK, Latif, Alie, and Callista, are you ready?

CALLISTA: Yep.

LATIF NASSER: Definitely.

ALIE WARD: Never been more so.

MOLLY BLOOM: Then it's time for the--

WOMAN: Declaration of Greatness.

MOLLY BLOOM: In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side. Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements. We flipped a coin. And, Latif, you're up first. Tell us what makes goats the GOAT.

LATIF NASSER: For today's debate, don't think of me as Latif. Think of me as "goat-if" because I've joined a goat herd.

[RELAXING MUSIC]

I strapped on a pair of horns, pranced out to a pasture, and now I'm one with the goats. You said it, Gertrude Stein. Goat life is the best-- no jobs, no homework, no stress, no mess-- well, I mean, actually tons of mess-- because me and my GFFs love to roll around in dust and soil as a way to clean ourselves. I look amazing. And goats are so fun. They're playful, a little mischievous and hysterical.

Ha ha ha ha! Good one, Goatis Redding. See, so funny. This is way better than being a snake, where you just, I don't know, pretend to be a stick and hope no one steps on you, shed your skin like some kind of living banana peel. Ooh. Instead, I'm out here climbing tall things and then standing on tall things. I'm jumping. I'm bleeding. I'm eating grass.

[GULPS]

Hmm. So much fiber.

Going full goat isn't as wild as it seems. In fact, about 10 years ago, a man named Thomas Thwaites waits spent a week in the Swiss Alps living with goats. He even built prosthetic legs so he could walk on all fours. He later said goats showed him how to be more present and relaxed. When I'm with goats, I definitely feel more chill. It makes sense humans and goats get along because we go way back, like around 10,000 years back.

It's the dawn of civilization in a place called the Fertile Crescent, which spans North Africa and Western Asia-- no electricity, no running water. Humans are just learning to farm when a brilliant idea strikes.

ALIE WARD: Dude, what if we farmed goats, like we planted them in dirt? I don't think that's how you grow more goats, bro.

MOLLY BLOOM: No, we just keep them around the farm. Then those goats will make more goats. And those goats will make even more goats and then we'll be goat-millionaires.

LATIF NASSER: OK, it didn't happen quite like that, but goats were one of the first domesticated animals. People used them for meat, for milk, for furs. Goats helped keep humans alive in a tough time. Did snakes help with anything?

ALIE WARD: I'd offer you humans a hand, but I don't have any more.

LATIF NASSER: In fact, I'd say that in the list of most important human innovations of all time, it goes fire, the wheel, and number three, the domesticated goat. Pow-pow-pow-pow!

[GOAT BLEATS]

But I don't just love goats for what they give. I love them for who they are. Have you seen their pupils? That's the black part in the middle of the eye. Ours are circles. So we mostly focus on what's right in front of us. Goats have rectangular pupils. This lets them see really far around them in both directions. Plus, I love how goats take on different roles in the herd. There's the top buck. He's the one who keeps the crew safe from predators, like mountain lions.

Back off, kitty, or you get the horns.

And then there's the flock queen. She's responsible for leading the herd to the best feeding grounds.

ALIE WARD: The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, which is why we're going to hop it. Legs up, goaties.

[GOAT BLEATS]

LATIF NASSER: And they're not just social with each other. Some scientists think goats can be as loving with us as dogs are, which you probably already knew if you've ever cuddled a goat at a petting zoo. They're friendly. They're fun. They've helped humanity. What's not to love? Come on, join the herd.

What's that, Olivia Hoof Rodrigoat? There's a fresh patch of clover down yonder? What are we waiting for? Let's ride.

[GOATS BLEATING]

MOLLY BLOOM: OK, I could definitely go for some goat cuddles right about now. Callista, what stood out to you about Latif's declaration of greatness.

CALLISTA: I love that they're so social and that they could be as loving as dogs. And also, the no-hands joke was hilarious.

MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, it was OK. Alie, it is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why goats really get your goat. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.

ALIE WARD: I wish I had more time. Listen, first off, goats think they're so cute. Have you ever seen a barnyard animal that is more in love with itself? Everyone wants to start a goat farm. But what they don't know is that goat farms' incredibly smelly. Do you know that goats make much more methane than, say, boa constrictors do? And if you have a goat farm, you're going to need pretty high fences because they can jump, all of them. Also, I don't want to have to wear prosthetic hooves in order to go on a hike with my friend who is a goat. I don't need that.

MOLLY BLOOM: And time.

LATIF NASSER: I'd like to pose a simple question. Everybody listening? Alie, Callista, who would you rather be trapped in a room with, a goat or a snake? Sure, maybe goats think they're the GOAT because they are the goat. But snakes, I mean, come on, they're not even hugging you. They're just trying to steal your heat and strangle you to death. I don't know. To me, the choice is clear.

MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm. Right, we have a lot to think about. And here is some more. Alie, it is your turn. Tell us why boa constrictors are joy inflictors.

[CHEERING]

MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Welcome to the World Wrestling Snake Entertainment! Tonight's match-up was a real sizzler for you, animal fans. And one corner, we've got the boa. You want to know-oa. It's the boa constrictor!

[CHEERING]

And in the other we have--

--a goat.

[GOAT BLEATS]

First, let's say hello to our wrestlers. Leslie the boa constrictor is a whopping 13 feet long. That's longer than a moose. She also enjoys long slithers in the moonlight, And She's logged over 100 hours in Minecraft. And over here, we have Gary the goat. Gary screams like a human child, is prone to fainting, and never calls his mom because apparently goats don't appreciate their moms.

AUDIENCE: Whoa!

MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Now, let's get this snakey smackdown started!

[BELL DINGS]

And Leslie is starting strong by wrapping her powerful body around Gary the goat and absolutely squeezing. Folks, a boa constrictor is capable of exerting up to 25 pounds of pressure per square inch. That's like having a bunch of bowling balls pressing down on you. Our goat friend is in a real bind. But what's this? Is Gary reaching for a towel? No, he's waving a flag that says, I don't appreciate my mom. Who is that even for?

AUDIENCE: Whoa!

ALIE WARD: Geez, that goat has its priorities all out of whack. I would put my money on Leslie winning the match. Since boa constrictors are super powerful, stealthy, and cunning, the way they hunt their prey is so sly. These nighttime hunters use beautiful patterns on their scales to blend into brush so they can wait in utter silence until their prey finds them.

MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: Folks, it appears that Leslie the boa constrictor has straight up vanished. Our goat competitor is looking very confused and-- oh my goodness, Leslie's back. She was blending in with the ropes of the ring this whole time.

ALIE WARD: Hi. Yeah, that sounds about right. Thanks to the boa's masterful swimming and climbing abilities, there's almost nowhere prey can go to avoid them. Even if a victim is out of sight, boas can still find them by sensing their body heat. And their hunting doesn't just benefit the boa, it can help us, too. For example, boas can help control certain pest populations, like a rat infestation. Can you imagine what life would be like without them?

RAT: Hey there, neighbor, just wanted to stop by and say hi.

MAN 1: Oh, wow. Wait, are you--

RAT: A giant rat? Yes, I am. Just wanted to let you know that me and my dozen kids just moved into the dumpster across the Street. Oh, and heads up, we're covered in fleas.

MAN 2: Oh, wow, that's so interesting. One sec. Hello, operator? Connect me to World Wrestling Snake Entertainment, specifically Leslie.

ALIE WARD: See? Everyone wants a boa around. Even if you don't have flea-ridden varmints to handle, boas are great to have as pets. They're hypoallergenic, so there won't be any fur or dander to clean up. Plus, boas only eat every couple of weeks and can live for up to 40 years. That means you can grow up with these incredible animals. And fun fact, Leslie and I went to high school together, right, girl?

LESLIE: You know it, bestie.

ALIE WARD: And because these radical reptiles are on the quiet side, they'll never annoy you, unlike some animals I know.

[COW MOOS]

Don't even fret about your boa buddy trying to eat you. It would never. It's physically impossible for a boa to fit a human in its mouth. So unless you're wrestling one, you're probably OK. Oh, that reminds me.

MARLEY FEUERWERKER-OTTO: And she's done it, ladies and gentlemen! Leslie the boa constrictor is the winner of tonight's wrestling match! Gary has tapped out, and in a show of concession, he's calling his mother. All hail the snake queen.

MOLLY BLOOM: Boa constrictors-- they're super hunters that make great pets, take care of pests, and are simply the best.

Leslie, Leslie, Leslie.

Oh, I was ringside for that. That was very, very exciting. OK, Callista, what stood out to you about Alie's argument?

CALLISTA: I love free pest control.

MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm.

CALLISTA: And it's very sad that goats don't care about their moms.

[LAUGHTER]

LATIF NASSER: That is spurious.

MOLLY BLOOM: OK, Latif, is time for your rebuttal. Tell us why boas are no us. You've got 30 seconds, and your time starts now.

LATIF NASSER: OK, there were two arguments in there, basically. One is that they're good killing machines, and one is that they're good pets. Sure, they're good killing machines. Fine. You want me to say that. I said it. But I'm someone who roots for the underdog, not the assassin. They are also not good pets. People abandon their boa pets all the time. They get bored of them because they're not that smart. They're not that affectionate. They're not that expressive. It's not a competition here. I think goats clearly-- they're the ones you want to root for.

MOLLY BLOOM: And Time.

ALIE WARD: Not expressive. This is someone who has never been hugged by a boa constrictor. And I understand why, to be honest, because they're heat-seeking. And that's a cold heart over there, if I've ever heard one. That's colder than a boa.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Callista, it is time to award some points. Please give one point to the Declaration of Greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over. You get to decide what makes a winning argument. Did one team's jokes make you giggle? Was another team's logic impeccable? Awards your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Have you made your decision?

CALLISTA: I have.

MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. Alie and Latif, how are you two feeling so far?

LATIF NASSER: Feeling great. Feeling a little cold, I guess, over here. But otherwise, great.

ALIE WARD: I'm enraged.

[LAUGHTER]

Incensed. I'm furious. This is an injustice.

LATIF NASSER: You know what could cheer you up? A goat. A goat could really cheer you up.

MOLLY BLOOM: OK, it is time for a quick break. Hop on a rock and coil around a branch.

CALLISTA: And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.

WOMAN: You're watching State of Debate, home to rage in rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Hello, debate friends. Taylor Lincoln here. And it's a bird. No. It's a plane. No! It's a dapper debater with a tweed suit and a winning smile, Todd Douglas!

TODD DOUGLAS: Guilty on all accounts. And speaking of guilty, we caught someone guilty of doing a debate crime, making a logical fallacy.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: These are arguments with criminally bad logic that weaken the point you're trying to make.

TODD DOUGLAS: In this case, it's the straw man fallacy. That's when you create a weak or distorted version of your opponent's point and then attack that instead.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Oof! It should be illegal. Just listen.

TODD DOUGLAS: And if I'm elected mayor, I'll spend even more money on schools instead of spending half the city's budget on my own birthday party, like our current mayor does.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Whoa, you're against birthday parties? How can you be against birthday parties.

TODD DOUGLAS: That's not what I said.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: What's next? Outlawing cake or clowns or fun?

TODD DOUGLAS: No. I just think the budget should be used for schools, not parties.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Reelect me, and I'll never ban parties. In fact, I'll use the budget to throw myself an even bigger party next year.

TODD DOUGLAS: Wow, what a whopper of a straw man right there.

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Yeah. Point was about how the city spends its money, not about banning birthday parties.

TODD DOUGLAS: You know what's always a party?

TAYLOR LINCOLN: Talking smack about logical fallacies with your bestie?

TODD DOUGLAS: You know it. Let's do again soon on State of Debate.

MOLLY BLOOM: Brains On Universe is a family of podcasts for kids and their adults. Since you're a fan of Smash Boom Best, you'll love the other shows in our universe. Come on, let's explore.

COMPUTER VOICE: It's alien exercise hour! Hi-yah! Hoo-ha! While I stretch my snootles and bounch on my trampoline, I'll listen to a new podcast. Ha-ha!

[GIGGLES]

I'm going to try Forever Ago, the best history podcast ever.

MOLLY BLOOM: To understand why anyone would think a TV show could change the world, we need to go way back--

[SWOOPING SOUND]

To America in the 1960s.

[ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC PLAYING]

KID: Rock and roll was pretty new.

MOLLY BLOOM: Ford released the iconic Mustang Muscle.

COMPUTER VOICE: Dessert. Come back here, podcast.

[BEEPING]

Must listen to Forever Ago now!

MOLLY BLOOM: Listen to Forever Ago wherever you get your podcasts.

MAN 2: Smash, Boom, Best.

MOLLY BLOOM: You're listening to Smash Boom Best. I'm your host, Molly Bloom.

CALLISTA: And I'm your judge, Callista.

MOLLY BLOOM: And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners. Take a listen to this homie debate idea from June.

JUNE: Hi, my name is June. I live in Minnesota. My debate idea is--

--dollhouses versus big, regular houses.

CALLISTA: There's no place like home.

MOLLY BLOOM: We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side June thinks should win.

CALLISTA: And now it's back to our debate, goats versus boa constrictors.

MOLLY BLOOM: That's right. And it's time for round two, the--

COMPUTER VOICE: Micro Round.

MOLLY BLOOM: For the Micro Round challenge, each team has prepared a creative response to a prompt they received in advance. For Latif and Alie, the prompt was "Letter to the Editor." We asked the debaters to write a letter to the editor of a publication of their choosing, complaining about something inspired by either side. Latif went first last time. So, Alie, you're up. Give us your boa constrictor-inspired letter to the editor.

ALIE WARD: Dear Vogue editor-in-chief. I'm writing to express extreme disappointment and frustration at your recent fashion spread featuring feather boas. This fluffy tuft of neck decor is far too festive for casual wear. What an insult to boa constrictors everywhere to see humans flaunting their feather boas at raucous celebrations, flipping these ostentatious accessories hither and thither.

Meanwhile, us boa constrictors are once again seems simply as a neck-choking threat or a trivial fashion accessory. And as an ectotherm, you might call us cold blooded, but I'd argue that your blood runs colder to use such loaded terms for our maligned species. I pity your warm-blooded need to cozy your own necks at the expense of our reputation, instead of relying on this outdated and frankly shameful feather boa term.

May I offer, in light of your lack of imagination, such snake-less phrases such as plumage scarfs or bird stoles. Perhaps the common fluff sash gets the job done. And as you scratch your hairy human heads, wondering how I'm even penning this letter, as all 3,500 snake species lack limbs. Well, I once again urge you to use some imagination. And remember that boa constrictors are known to flourish despite heavy constraint, especially under high pressure and tight, tight deadlines. Hot under the collar-- B constrictor.

MOLLY BLOOM: Wow. An amazing vocabulary and a passion for fashion from that boa constrictor. OK, Latif, it is your turn. Let's hear your. goat-inspired letter to the editor.

LATIF NASSER: [BLEATS] Dear editor. In general, when others say mean things about me, I usually just ignore it, especially when it happens in a publication as shady as the scaly daily news. But this time, I just couldn't bear it. Not by the hairs on my chinny chin-chin. The article, written by well-known snake reporter, Anderson Cooper, claims that a goat, who looks a lot like me, went out of their way to recklessly headbutt a local child.

[BLEATS]

Anyone who's ever met a goat knows we'd never do such a thing. Here's what really happened. I work at a petting zoo. I spend my whole day hanging out with humans who want to hang out with me. As for the headbutt, it's a bit embarrassing, but I fell asleep. I have a medical condition that causes me to faint if I get too excited.

And this child and I were having so much fun. I fainted on top of her. But don't worry, I'm just a tiny goat. She didn't get hurt at all. She even helped nurse me back awake. Listen, I get why snakes who kill tens of thousands of people every year would want to make us goats, who kill, on average, zero people every year, look bad to feel better about their snake selves.

We goats are used to taking the fall for all kinds of things, getting the blame for stuff we didn't even do. That's why they call it scapegoating. But please, [BLEATS] next time, snakes, stop twisting the facts. Sincerely, Alfalfa the goat at the Happy Horns and Hoofs Petting Zoo. Hmm.

MOLLY BLOOM: The greatest of all time, setting the record straight. Callista, what did you like about Latif and Alie's Micro Rounds?

CALLISTA: They were both very, very funny. I love plumage scarves. That's great.

MOLLY BLOOM: Callista, it is time to award a point, but don't tell us who it's going to.

[THEME MUSIC]

Have you made your decision?

CALLISTA: Yes, I have.

MOLLY BLOOM: Fantastic. Then it's time for our third round, the Super Stealthy--

MAN: Aha! Hoo-ha!

MOLLY BLOOM: Sneak Attack. This is our improvised round, where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot. Today's Sneak Attack is called Haiku for you. Your challenge is to write one haiku about how great your side is and another one about how terrible the other side is. Debaters, are you ready for your Sneak Attack?

LATIF NASSER: Yes.

ALIE WARD: Oh, yeah.

MOLLY BLOOM: We'll start with Latif. Let's hear one haiku about the glory of the goat and one about those bad, bad boas.

LATIF NASSER: Goats have such soft wool. They made your favorite sweater like the warmest hug.

MOLLY BLOOM: Hmm, so nice.

LATIF NASSER: Boas pretend hug. Really, they smother and kill. Also, botulism.

MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]

ALIE WARD: Wow. Slander. First off, slander. So you will be hearing from our lawyers.

LATIF NASSER: The CDC, I looked it up. They have warnings for snake owners, and one of the problems is botulism, one of the diseases they give to their owners.

ALIE WARD: One of one, a very--

LATIF NASSER: One of many. You're right. You're right. Many, many diseases. You're so right. You're so right about that.

MOLLY BLOOM: Use a hand sanitizer.

LATIF NASSER: Salmonella. Yeah, yeah, lots of diseases

ALIE WARD: You think goats don't have germs?

LATIF NASSER: Yeah, but snakes apparently are in the highest risk category, and goats are not.

ALIE WARD: Do you know what goats do for fun? They literally go pee-pee on each other for fun.

LATIF NASSER: You know what? I'm not here to judge anybody for what they do for fun.

ALIE WARD: They have talons growing out of their head, and they still can't kill anything.

LATIF NASSER: Yeah, because they don't want to. Why are we putting such a premium on wanting to kill other living things here?

ALIE WARD: If they could eat a living thing, you know they would. They eat tin cans.

LATIF NASSER: Yeah, because they're recyclers. They like to make the best of it. That's a good thing.

MOLLY BLOOM: OK. Alie, let's hear your haikus. We'll start with the beauty of the boa and then one about those grungy goats.

ALIE WARD: Well, first off, I just want to say I think it's a very, very underhanded. Even though my team doesn't even have hands, I think it's very underhanded, lot of to exploit our hugability. And my haiku in favor of the boas-- smooth, stealthy slithers eating up rats like candy. Boas hug our hearts. And while that is true sometimes, actually, because that is how they kill their prey, they do hug our hearts from a metaphorical standpoint.

MOLLY BLOOM: So many meetings.

ALIE WARD: So many meetings. So much depth in a snake.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, let's hear your haiku against goats.

ALIE WARD: Screaming, stinky goats, we're over your prestige. Goats, let ye be gone.

MOLLY BLOOM: Oh.

LATIF NASSER: Wow.

ALIE WARD: It was kind of threatening.

MOLLY BLOOM: All right, Callista, it is time to award some points for this Sneak Attack. Think about which side impressed you the most and award your fourth point.

[THEME MUSIC]

Have you made your decision?

ALIE WARD: Yes, I have.

MOLLY BLOOM: Perfect. Then it's time for our final round, the Final Six. In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side. OK, Alie, let's hear your six words for your boa besties.

ALIE WARD: Boas don't even need legs, so--

[LAUGHTER]

MOLLY BLOOM: I enjoyed that very much. All right, Latif, it is your turn. Give us your six words about the goodness of goats.

LATIF NASSER: Greatest of all time plus cheese.

[LAUGHTER]

MOLLY BLOOM: Oh, we are finishing strong today, everybody. This is a tough decision, Callista, but it is time to award a final point for the Final Six.

[THEME MUSIC]

Have you made your decision?

CALLISTA: I have awarded my point.

MOLLY BLOOM: Wonderful. All right, tally up those points. Drum roll please. And the winner is--

CALLISTA: Boa constrictors!

MOLLY BLOOM: Rightfully so. Callista, I knew you had it in you. Game recognize game-- is what that is. Predators get it. Did it come down to the Final Six?

CALLISTA: Yes.

ALIE WARD: Oh my gosh, as close can be. Latif is a genius, and being paired with him is one of the crueler things that you all have done with me because he is the GOAT. And someone who can come up with a haiku that involves botulism off the dome is not to be messed with. So I'm lucky that I had such a fierce animal to defend because a lot of his brain is a fierce animal. He's got a snake in there, and I mean that as a compliment.

LATIF NASSER: Alie is like a lion in our field, and I'm so excited to be able to sit next to her and do this and watch her work. The thing I was particularly astonished by was this creature, B constrictor. I imagined it's like a BEA. It was like the name, like BR or something. But that was so fashion-forward, but also eloquent about how much she cared about fashion terminology. And that's just not where I thought that was ever going to go. It was so great and imaginative and delightful, and I loved it.

MOLLY BLOOM: Well, that is it for today's debate battle. Callista crowned boa constrictors the Smash Boom Best. But what about you?

CALLISTA: Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.

MOLLY BLOOM: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On and APM Studios. It's produced by me, Molly Bloom.

ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.

LATIF NASSER: And--

ARON WOLDESLASSIE: Aron Woldeslassie.

MOLLY BLOOM: We had engineering help from Jean Baron, Daniel McDonald, and Evelyn Bocanegra, with sound design by--

ANNA WEGGEL: Anna Weggel.

MOLLY BLOOM: Our editors are--

SHAHLA FARZAN: Shahla Farzan.

MOLLY BLOOM: And--

SANDEN TOTTEN: Sanden Totten.

MOLLY BLOOM: With fact checking by--

ROSE DUPONT: Rose DuPont.

MOLLY BLOOM: And--

REBECCA RAND: Rebecca Rand.

MOLLY BLOOM: And we had production help from the rest of the Brains On Universe team.

RACHEL BREES: Rachel Brees.

ANNA GOLDFIELD: Anna Goldfield.

NICO WISLTER: Nico Gonzalez Wisler.

RUBY GUTHRIE: Ruby Guthrie.

LAUREN HUMBERT: Lauren Humbert.

JOSHUA RAY: Joshua Ray.

MARC SANCHEZ: Marc Sanchez.

MOLLY BLOOM: And--

CHARLOTTE TRAVER: Charlotte Traver.

MOLLY BLOOM: Our executive producer is Beth Perlman, and the APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati and Joanne Griffith. Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. And we want to give special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman.

Latif, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout-out to today?

LATIF NASSER: OK, so I'd like to thank, in addition to the wonderful staff here at this show and the wonderful staff at Radiolab and our kids show, Terrestrials, I would like to thank Thomas Thwaites, the man who lived as a goat for real.

MOLLY BLOOM: Awesome. And how about you, Alie? Any special shout-outs?

ALIE WARD: I just want to shout out a lot of my opponent, as well as everyone at Ologies and Smologies, our kid-friendly show. And I want to thank everyone out there who has a boa and who believed in boas. Please give them a hug back for me.

MOLLY BLOOM: Yes, we are so honored to have both of you here. Your shows are some of our favorites, and especially your two for kids, Smologies and Terrestrials. Go check them out. And how about you, Callista? Any special thanks or shout-outs?

CALLISTA: I would like to thank my dad because he's the one who signed me up for this.

MOLLY BLOOM: Yeah.

CALLISTA: And I would like to shout out both of the debaters. You guys both did amazing. Great job.

LATIF NASSER: Thanks, Callista. Woo-hoo!

MOLLY BLOOM: Before we go, let's check in and see who June thinks should win, the dollhouse versus regular house debate.

JUNE: I think the big houses will win because you can live in them.

MOLLY BLOOM: If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knock-down-drag-out debate, head to smashboom.org/contact and drop us a line. And make sure to subscribe to Brains On Universe on YouTube, where you can watch animated versions of some of your favorite episodes. That's it for this season, but we'll be back August 14 with a big season, including 16 shiny new episodes. We can't wait. Bye.

ALIE WARD: Adios.

LATIF NASSER: Bye.

MOLLY BLOOM: See you later.

[THEME MUSIC] Ooh, you're the smash boom best

Ooh, working to the test

Ooh, you're the smash boom best

Ooh, man, I find the rest

It's smash boom best

It's smash boom best

ALIE WARD: I need a hug. I don't need a pile of Milk Duds on the floor, if you what I'm saying.

LATIF NASSER: Right. But just be careful that hug doesn't end up being your last moment on Earth.

ALIE WARD: Never.

MOLLY BLOOM: [LAUGHS]