This is a transcript of our episode “Moon vs Sun”
Announcer: From the brains behind Brains On!, it’s Smash Boom Best.
Lillian: The show for people with big opinions.
Announcer: From the brains behind Brains On!, it’s Smash Boom Best!
Lillian: The show for people with big opinions!
Molly: I'm Molly Bloom and this is the show where we take two things, smash them together, and let you decide which is best. Today, we've got an epic intergalactic battle between two legendary orbs in our sky. They are as different as day and night, and you've certainly seen them both. It's sun versus moon. Which celebrated celestial body will snag the title of Smash Boom Best? Lillian is here to help us decide. Hi, Lillian.
Molly: So Lillian, when I say sun, what comes to mind?
Lillian: I just think of that big yellow circle in the sky. [laughs]
Molly: Ever-present day after day. And what is your favorite thing about the sun?
Lillian: I think that it keeps me warm. Like sometimes I like to go outside and just stay under the sun for warmth.
Molly: Oh, a little basking in the sun, I like it. What do you think about when I say the word moon?
Lillian: I think about tides and stuff, and especially a bunch of astrology, Zodiac signs, and all because I know that people use the moon to predict how they're going to feel or something like that.
Molly: Got you. What is your favorite thing about the moon?
Lillian: I really like when the moon is bright at night, when the moonlight just shines through your window at night, that's just the most beautiful thing ever.
Molly: Oh, I see you have a poetic heart. Lillian, what is your involvement with debate?
Lillian: Currently, I'm a junior and I've been in debate since I was a freshman, so it's been about three years that I've been in debate.
Molly: You are a debate expert. What advice do you have for our debaters today?
Lillian: I would say just have fun. That's one of the things I love most about debate, it's a fun activity.
Molly: A very positive approach to debate. All right, time to meet today's debaters. Here to rep mighty, magnetic, oh so mysterious Team Moon, it's Katie McVay. Hi, Katie.
Molly: Katie, in a single sentence, why is the moon clearly the coolest?
Katie: Let's put it this way, if the moon were a person, they would give you a ride to the airport.
Molly: Very nice.
Katie: That's the kind of person they would be.
Molly: Old, reliable moon. Here to argue for the literal star of our solar system, it's Jed Kim for Team Sun. Hi, Jed.
Jed: Hey, how's it going?
Molly: In one sentence, Jed, why is the sun superior?
Jed: The sun makes so many things possible from life to technology to those t-shirts that change colors and are really cool.
Molly: Excellent illuminating points from both sides already. Now, before we start let's recap the rounds. Round one is the Declaration of Greatness using facts, logic, and top-notch storytelling, our debaters will present the most persuasive arguments for their side.
They'll also each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's declaration. Round two is the Micro Round, a creative challenge each side has prepared for in advance. Round three is the Sneak Attack, a surprise challenge each debater will have to respond to on the spot. Lastly, the final six. In this round, each team will have just six words to make their case. Okay, debaters, are you ready?
Jed: Super ready.
Molly: Awesome, that means it's time for the--
Announcer: Declaration of Greatness.
Molly: Lillian, you will be awarding two points in this round, one for the best declaration and one for the best rebuttal, but don't tell us who you've given your points to until the very end of the debate. We've flipped a coin and Katie, you are up first. Light up our minds with the magnificence of Team Moon.
Let me set the scene. Space. 4.5 billion years ago. The earth is young.
Well, maybe not that young, but young. That Earth is different from the earth we know today. It’s molten, volcanic. And it’s got different neighbors—not Mercury and Mars, but rather, Theia, a planetary body around the same size as young proto-Earth.
Everything is going fine for Theia and proto-Earth——until one day, Theia drifts a little too close to proto-Earth and… THWACK!
The two bodies collide, creating enough debris to create Earth’s best friend and sibling, the moon.
Moon: Oh, hi!
Earth: Oh… hello. I’m so glad you’re here! I’m Earth.
Moon: I’m the moon.
Earth: Oh my gosh. I love your style.
Moon: Right back at you.
Earth: I think we’re going to be best friends.
And that’s what I’m going to talk about—the best planetary body out there: the moon. The moon rules because it is earth’s best friend. (Sorry, sun! But you know it’s true!)
Moon and Earth aren’t exactly the same. They’re different, but that’s what makes their relationship stronger. And of course, the moon and earth would always tell one another that they have great hair—if either of them had hair, I mean.
Because the moon is made up of a little of Theia and a little of proto-Earth, the moon has a slightly different makeup than Earth. The moon is denser, with a different type of atmosphere.
Atmosphere is the layer of gases that surrounds a planetary body. The moon’s atmosphere—unlike Earth’s—doesn’t have oxygen and is much thinner than ours.
And there’s less gravity on the moon! Which makes it like a super awesome bounce house that you don’t have to take your shoes off for.
In 1969, with the landing of Apollo 11, humans got to meet the moon face to face for the very first time!
Not only did Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong have a blast bouncing and making history, they collected rocks and other soil samples… which have become the basis for a lot of concrete information we know about the moon’s make-up and origins.
And like any good best friend: the moon is always down to hang. In fact, one day—you might be able to visit the moon, too!
There’s already tons of cool stuff up there to look at, and I don’t just mean the moon’s thousands of craters. Did you know there’s an art museum on the moon?
That’s right, I said art museum. In 1969, NASA launched the Intrepid into space. And six intrepid—forgive me, terrible joke—artists had the idea to get their art where it had never gone before: space. Sculptor Forrest Myers created a small ceramic tile he called “the Moon Museum” and attached it to one of the Intrepid’s legs. He and five other artists covered it in small drawings and—boom!—art museum on the moon.
Try that on the sun. You can’t! The sun is important but you’ll never be able to visit. You’d turn into immediate barbecue.
The moon, on the other hand, could be a place where you could one day maybe throw a barbecue. Cool moon vibes versus burnt to a crisp on the sun. Not hard to pick a favorite.
And not only is the moon a cool place to visit, but like any good best friend: it is a positive influence. The moon wouldn’t let you start a podcast just because everyone else is doing it! The moon is the type of best friend that your mom LOVES.
Unlike other planets, which may have a lot of tiny moons, our moon is big. And, as a result, it creates a lot of stability for us here on earth. The moon helps Earth to be less wobbly on its axis. This lack of wobble means that Earth has a more stable climate than it otherwise would have.
Earth: I was thinking of starting an ice age. What do you think?
Moon: Absolutely not.
Earth: OK. Fiiiiine.
This is just one way the moon has a positive influence on Earth. It isn’t just weather. The moon controls the oceans, too!
The moon, as Earth’s natural satellite, orbits—or very slowly travels around—the Earth.
The moon and the Earth both have gravitational pull. Each day the Earth rotates. This is what creates day and night.
And as the Earth rotates, it presents a different face to the moon. While this happens, the moon’s gravity pulls on the Earth. And what does that do? It causes the tides.
Not bad for a celestial body a third of the size of Earth!
Yes, the sun is important. But the moon is special to Earth. Earth helped create the moon, is influenced by the moon, and, in the future, might be a place you can actually visit! Other planetary bodies, including the sun, will never have the kind of bff relationship that the Earth and moon do. What else can I say? The moon is Earth’s best friend!
Moon: You know it!
Molly: I would call that a tremoondous declaration. Lillian, which facts shone the brightest for you there? What stood out to you?
Lillian: I think definitely how they explained how there was an art museum on the moon. I thought that was one of the most fascinating things. I was like, "What?" I had no idea that that happened or existed.
Molly: Yeah, that blew my mind too. It's super cool. Well, Jed, it is time for your rebuttal, you have 30 seconds to respond and your time starts now.
Jed: Yes, the moon and the earth have been around for a long time, but the sun has been there for so much longer, just smiling on the solar system, making things warm. The moon has no oxygen, it has the weakest atmosphere. Sure you could visit the moon, but what are you going to do? You're going to be stuck in a suit the whole time. That art museum, let me just talk about that art museum, it's a disk, it's the worst art museum in the universe. As for visiting the sun, we just have to satellite to the sun.
Molly: And time! Nice work Jed. Now it's the sun's turn to rise and shine. Give us your declaration of greatness for Team Sun.
Jed: It’s easy to understand how much better the sun is than the moon. Just imagine life without either of them. Get rid of the moon, and things would definitely be different.
Man 1: Hey honey, did you notice, the moon’s gone?
Man 2: What? Really? Huh! You know, I thought something was different.
Man 1: I just thought it was another new moon, but no, it’s gone.
Man 2: That’s a shame. I’m really gonna miss seeing it. It was so pretty.
Man 1: Yeah. Oh well.
Man 2: Oh well...
Jed: Oh well. Now, take those same people. Lose the sun, and ...
Man 2: Why’s it so dark?!
Man 1: The sun! It’s gone!!
Man 2: (high pitched scream)
Man 1: IT’S THE END OF THE WORLD!!! GAME OVER, MAN!!!
Man 2: (sobbing and raving)
Jed: Yeah, this isn’t an exaggeration. We know from history that there have been many instances of people freaking out during solar eclipses. Ancient Greeks thought the gods were angry, some ancient Chinese people thought a dragon was trying to eat the sun. Legend has it that one ancient emperor was so scared by an eclipse that he got sick and died shortly after.
The prospect of losing the sun is terrifying. And no wonder. It gives us light, warmth, it makes plants grow. Without it, all life on Earth would end, leaving behind a frozen ball of ice, hurtling randomly through the universe.
Oh man, I let things get dark there. Sorry. I shouldn’t use fear as a motivator. Ok, from here on out, I’m just going to talk about really cool things about the sun.
First off, let’s talk about stars, which are amazing, because they are elemental forges. As they burn, and when they die, they create almost every element you find on the periodic table. You are made up of matter from stars.
Jed: Stars, like our sun, get energy by fusing hydrogen into helium in their cores in a process called nucleosynthesis. That's when hydrogen atoms in their cores smash together and become helium, creating a ton of energy along the way!
It’s an incredibly hot process. Temperatures in the core of the sun are about 15 million degrees Celsius. Moving outwards, the sun’s surface is a relatively chilly 5600 degrees. But then, things get weird, because once you move out a little ways, into the sun’s atmosphere, temperatures ramp back up to about a million degrees. Why does that happen?
Gibson: That is one of the big mysteries of solar physics and of astronomy in general.
Jed: Sarah Gibson is a sun scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
The sun is full of mysteries we’ve barely even scratched the hot surface of!
Sarah says there are some ideas about why the temperature change happens, and they have to do with magnetic fields - something the boring old moon doesn’t have, which is just one of the many reasons why the sun is so much cooler than the moon. And by “cooler” I mean more awesome cool, because the sun’s superduper toasty and not cool like cold cool, like… Sarah, help me out!
Gibson: If you want to have one slam dunk reason why the sun’s cooler than the moon? Magnetic fields. Because magnetism is what makes the sun’s atmosphere hot. It’s what drives all the space weather.
Jed: Space weather! Sarah says the magnetic fields can twist up the sun’s plasma.
Gibson: And make these beautiful loops and blobs and raining structures and showering structures and things constantly moving and pulsating. It’s dynamic and it’s beautiful, frankly.
Jed: The moon, by comparison, is pretty much just an inert, unchanging rock.
Voice: *cough* Boring!
Jed: The sun changes -- there are sunspots, solar flares. Coronal mass ejections shoot plasma outwards.
From Earth, we see the resulting space weather as beautiful auroras -- you may have heard them described as “the northern lights.” Those gorgeous ribbons of color that dazzle in the night sky.
Jed: It can also interfere with our communications systems and electrical grids. That’s why we always have to pay attention to the sun’s activity.
And here’s a really cool thing: this is a fantastic time to start paying attention to the sun. Solar activity grows and wanes on an 11-year cycle. And we have just left the low point. Get yourself some sunspot viewing gear, because things are ramping up! Just remember to be very careful and never look directly at the sun.
Voice: My eyes!!!
Jed: All right, now let’s talk clean energy. Obviously, the sun provides solar power, but did you know it also makes wind power possible? Wind happens because the sun warms different parts of the planet to different temperatures. That makes for pressure differences, which makes wind. Stick a wind turbine down, and thank the sun for two important sources of green electricity.
It’s no wonder humanity has long glorified the sun. In Romeo and Juliet, William Shakespeare likened Juliet to, you guessed it, the sun!
Romeo: But soft! What light through yonder window breaks?
It is the East, and Juliet is the sun!
Arise, fair sun, and kill the envious moon,
Juliet: Yeah, eat it, you stinky, cheesy moon! Jealous much? I’m Juliet, and I’m the sun! HUAGGGHHH!!!
Romeo: Oh, mama!
Jed: This brings up a question. We’re always comparing things we like about people to the sun. So and so’s got such a sunny disposition. Or he’s got a smile as bright as the sun. What, uh, do people compare about themselves to the moon? Any particular aspect of a person? A part of the body, perhaps? The moon? Moons? I think we know where I’m going with this. Don’t even need to say it. Just leave it out there.
It’s butts. We call butts moons. Mooning with your butt. No one wants to see that. Grow up. Team Sun. All the way!
Molly: A glowing argument from Team Sun. Lilian, what about Jed's declaration stood out to you?
Lilian: I really loved all the sound effects that they used in their declaration. It really added a nice touch to it and I also really liked other jokes incorporated throughout it, especially the last one about mooning.
Jed: Yeah, butts.
Molly: Speaking of butts, Katie, it's time for your rebuttal. You have 30 seconds to respond to Jed and your time starts now.
Katie: First of all, I don't know why there's such an anti-butt bias on Team Sun but here on Team Moon, we say all body parts are valuable. Secondly, all I heard here was that the sun can knock out your WiFi. It killed a man. It killed an emperor. The moon's not killing people. The moon is just chilling, being nice, being kind, making the tides. I don't like anything that the sun's about. I get it. You need it but do you want it?
Jed: You don't like anything about the sun?
Katie: No. I'm against it. I say get rid of it. (crosstalk) ice age.
Jed: Get back in your cave.
Molly: (laughs) Okay, Lilian, it's time to mark down your first two points for this debate. One point should go to the team that you thought had the best declaration of greatness and the second point goes to the team who wowed you with their rebuttal. Both points could go to the same person or each debater could leave this round with one point. It's up to you to decide. Listeners at home, grab a sheet of paper and award your own two points. If you need some more time to think, just press pause. These are very difficult decisions. Lilian, I want to know. Have you made up your mind?
Lilian: I think I have. Yeah.
Molly: Excellent. Jed, Katie, how are you feeling right now?
Katie: Powerful. (laughs)
Jed: Yeah, I'm going to win.
Molly: (laughs) Excellent. We're going to take a quick break but we'll be right back with three more phases of this out of this world debate.
Lilian: Stay tuned.
Taylor: Taylor Lincoln here, with 820-time debate champ, Todd Douglas!
Todd: (distracted) Hi, Taylor.
Taylor: Ooo -- what’re you drawin’ TaTa? Are those all… dots?
Todd: Dots, points… yeah -- I’m making a pointillist drawing of a banana. I’m drawing a banana out of dots!
Taylor: Cool! That’s one dotty banana! Err, pointy banana? Anyway. That reminds me of a clip I wanna play for you. It’s a great demonstration of how to illustrate your point in debate!
Todd: Just like I’m illustrating my point right now!
Taylor: Well… not really. I’ll explain after we listen. Roll tape!
Marsha: These kids should not be allowed to have their cellphones in school! All they do is stare at em and beep boop on em. Shouldn’t they learn to talk to actual other real people?
Peter: Communicating via text, phone, video chats and email is another way to talk to real people -- and it’s the future. Letting kids have phones in school prepares them for the real world.
Marsha: I’m sorry, but how will they learn how to form sentences and speak them with their mouths one day, instead of just with their thumbs and the ticky tockies and the mojichats!
Peter: Marsha, throughout history, people have panicked about new technologies ruining people’s ability to socialize. Back in the 1960s, when the TV came into the home, everyone was worried that families were going to stop talking to each other. On the contrary! Now, television brings people together!
Todd: Ding-dang-doodle! Now THAT is a great example of illustrating your point!
Taylor: Yessiree. Illustrating your point is a great debate technique. It’s when you use an example to help your audience understand your position.
Todd: It’s especially helpful if your audience isn’t that familiar with what you’re talking about!
Taylor: Yes, and that teacher used a historical comparison, which is a great move -- because if something happened a certain way in the past -- you can argue it’s safe to assume something similar might happen again
Todd: So next time you get into a debate debate-heads, illustrate your points!
Taylor: Yep! And we’ll catch you next time on...
Taylor/Todd: State of Debate!
Molly: You're listening to Smash Boom Best.
Lilian: The show about showdowns.
Molly: I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
Lilian: And I'm your judge, Lilian.
Molly: This is an awesome debate idea sent in by Sophie from Providence, Rhode Island.
Sophie: My debate idea is hot chocolate versus apple cider.
Lilian: That sounds like a delicious debate.
Molly: It does. We'll hear who Sophie thinks should win that match up at the end of the show but now it's back to today's clash between celestial bodies, sun versus moon. Time to beam you up to the next round. The micro-round. Today's micro-round is Sonnet Slam. A sonnet is a poem composed of 14 lines. For this challenge, we asked both debaters to write a sonnet about their side in the style of William Shakespeare. Jed, you're up first this time. Let's hear your sonnet celebrating the sun.
Jed: Each night I mourn the absence of fair sun
Where hast thou gone? Vampires doth lurk out here!
They chomp their fangs, and so I must fast run.
From midnight till dawn’s break I live in fear.
Jealous vampires feel so inadequate
In fear that no one will want to kiss them
They work out all day, but they ought to quit
Sun’s got the hottest bod in the system
If only moon’s light too would slay the foe.
Then, these fiends wouldst blight and bite us no more.
Instead, it gives us werewolves. Way to go.
You are the worst, moon! Get thee out the door.
This sonnet needs more words that sound fancy.
Forsooth! Fivesooth; buy one sooth, get one free.
Molly: Radiant ode for Team Sun. Katie, it's time for Team Moon to wax poetic. Let's hear your sonnet.
Katie: Shall I compare thee to a round of cheese?
Thou are more cratered and more luminous
Without you, I’m a forest without trees
Your light upon my face is numinous
Sometimes, without you, I feel so wobbly
Your guidance is so vital to me, moon
Without your influence, life hobbles me
I shall sway to and fro like a cartoon
You make sure I stay on track, stay in line
N’er shall I wander without you to guide
A relationship so tried, true, and sublime
Friendship so wonderful never shall die
So long as Earth lives up there in the sky
So, too, shall the moon forever stand by
Molly: I am moonstruck by that poem. Very nice, Katie. Lilian, now you've heard both sonnets, you have one point to award. Which sonnet swayed you, the criteria is completely up to you. Who had the most facts, who had the best rhymes, who moved you. Completely subjective. Completely up to you. Award your point but don't tell us who it's going to. Have you decided?
Molly: Was it a tough call?
Lilian: Yes, they were both so beautiful. (laughs)
Molly: They were. They were excellent. Get ready, debaters, because now, it's time for the.
Announcer: Ha, ha, hoo, ha. Sneak attack.
Molly: Your challenge today is Sloganeering. For this challenge, we need each of you to come up with three slogans for your side. That's something like, "Think different.” “Got milk?" or, "They're magically delicious." We'll give you some time to come up with your slogans. In the meantime, here's some stellar hold music.
Hold Music: Sometimes a crescent, sometimes full
At the tide, the moon pulls
Sweet and constant, nightlight in the sky
Bright and bold lifegiving sun
Center of the solar system
Without you we wouldn’t be alive
Molly: All right, Katie and Jed, are you ready?
Jed: Yes, I am.
Molly: Fantastic. This time, we're going to trade back and forth. Jed went first the last time so, Katie, we'll start with you. Let's hear your first slogan for Team Moon.
Katie: The moon, guiding ships since before you even knew about us.
Molly: Very nice. Jed, let's hear your first slogan for sun.
Jed: Number one. It grows your crops because sun's the tops.
Molly: Love a rhyme. All right, Katie, let's hear slogan number two for Team Moon.
Katie: The moon. Your angsty poems couldn't function without us.
Molly: All right, Jed. Let's hear your second slogan for Team Sun.
Jed: This one I decided to go a little negative attack at.
Katie: Oh, my gosh.
Jed: Love the moon? You simple buffoon.
Molly: [laughs] I love it. Another rhyme. All right, Katie, let's hear your third and final slogan for Team Moon.
Katie: The moon, for when 1,000 craters are just not enough.
Molly: All right, Jed, let's hear your final slogan for Team Sun.
Jed: Shine on, you hot glorious gaseous orb.
Molly: That was motivational too. I love it. All right. Lilian, it's time for you to award a point. Which team slogans won you over? Again, the criteria is completely up to you. Have you decided?
Molly: Excellent. Was this a tough one?
Lilian: Yes, they were all so funny.
Molly: Excellent. Now, the very last chance to score. Debaters, get ready for The Final Six. Jed, you have six final words to celebrate the sun. Let's hear them.
Jed: Vote sun. It's not a rock.
Molly: (chuckles) Katie, your turn. Wow us with your six words for the moon.
Katie: The moon, for when your po-- Oh, wait. No, that's eight words.
Katie: Oh no. The moon follows no man's rules, which is six words so I'm going to go with that. I got so thrown off by Jed's negative bupkiss but I stand by what I said. The moon follows snowman's rules.
Jed: Snowman's rules. She said snowman's rules.
Katie: Snowman rules.
Molly: (laughter)This has been a legendary battle between two beautiful celestial bodies but now it's time to make some big decisions. Everything revolves around you, Lilian, so please award your final point for that last round. Then once you've awarded your Final Six points, tally up your points for both sides. Have you awarded your final point there, Lilian?
Molly: Are you ready to crown our winner?
Molly: Okay. The Smash Boom Best is. (drum roll)
Lilian: The moon.
Katie: An upset.
Molly: Lilian, walk us through your decision-making process. What led you to choose Team Moon as the winner?
Lilian: Yes. After the slogans, it was a tie. The sun had two and the moon had two so then it really came down to the final six and I just thought I really love the moon's slogan that they follow no man's rules.
Molly: You're a rebel at heart.
Jed: Wow. Pulled it out at the end.
Katie: The moon follows no man's rules.
Jed: What are snowman's rules? I do not know what that means.
Katie: It's complicated.
Molly: This was a very close debate and you did an excellent job.
Katie: Absolutely. I learned so much about the sun and Jed's presentation and his vampire-centric poetry was inspiring-
Jed: Oh, thank you.
Katie: -beautiful, and will stay with me for the rest of my life.
Jed: I was going to tell you that your sonnet, it actually brought me to tears while I was sitting in my weird booth in my basement.
Molly: They probably very beautiful sonnets. Well, that is it for today's poetic debate battle. Lillian crowned, the moon, Smash Boom Best today, but what do you think?
Lillian: I thought the moon won, but maybe you'll feel differently. Let us know. Just head to our website smashboom.org and cast your vote.
Molly: Smash Boom Best is brought to you by Brains On! and American Public Media.
Jed: It's produced by Molly Bloom, Rosie Dupont, Jennifer Lai, Marc Sanchez, and Sanden Totten.
Katie: With engineering help from Veronica Rodriguez and Cameron Wiley.
Jed: We had production help from Elyssa Dudley, Kristina Lopez, and Menaka Wilhelm.
Molly: Anna Weggel is the voice of our hold music and our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto. We want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross, Taylor Coffman, and David Zha. Jed, is there anyone you want to give a shout-out to today?
Jed: So many people. First off, Sarah Gibson, who was my awesome sun scientist. Then I had Aaron Scott and his secret acting partner of mystery. Leo Deran, Alice Kim, Elliot Eloise, and Kevin Thompson. Meghan Hezel, Jack Stewart who read my sonnet, and Kate Micucci, the actress, and comedian who you might know as the voice of Webby Vanderquack on DuckTales.
Molly: How about you Katie, anyone you want to thank today?
Katie: I would like to thank Forrest Myers for putting an art museum on the moon. What a great idea. (chuckles)
Molly: Lillian, is there anyone you want to give a shout-out to?
Lillian: I would like to give a shout-out to the stars. They're beautiful.
Molly: We can't let them get overshadowed by today's sun moon competition. Well, before we sign off, let's hear from Sophie. She suggested a match-up between a hot chocolate and apple cider, here's who she thinks would win.
Sophie: I think hot chocolate would win because whipped cream tastes better on hot chocolate than it does in apple cider.
Molly: Fair point Sophie, and if you've dreamed up the best debate idea ever, we want to hear about it. You can share your ideas but just say hi at smashboom.org. We love hearing from you. We'll be back soon with another debate battle. Bye!
Jed: Man, I can't believe I'm the guy who let the sun lose.
Lillian: Hey, it was close.
Jed: I had the sun, it's so clearly superior.